Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
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Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
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Re: Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
#2To save folks some time, here's the summarized version of what commit-formatting Linus actually wants (for the kernel anyway):
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-56637... https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-56637...
Re: Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
#3Nice summary, though the tone of the discussion is a bit tense.
Re: Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
#4Nice summary, though the tone of the discussion is a bit tense.
Indeed, very intense; especially when Linus was throwing out statements like, "The truth shouldn't be sugarcoated." I had to believe there was something concrete behind it, however, and I was glad to see that there was.
Re: Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
#5I still don't understand what the problem is.
Is it that github doesn't enforce a commit message standard? Or is it that github doesn't allow you to follow a commit message standard such as what Linus uses?
Does git itself enforce a standard, for that matter?
What exactly is the deficiency in github?
Re: Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
#6I still don't understand what the problem is. Is it that github doesn't enforce a commit message standard? Or is it that github doesn't allow you to follow a commit message standard such as what Linus uses? Does git itself enforce a standard, for that matter? What exactly is the deficiency in github?
The deficiency basically has to do with git being primarily a command-line tool, and as such, it's most powerful/native tools are built to be perfect for viewing plain text/in the command line (which are also mono-spaced). As such, when you view commit messages that are too long in the command line, the formatting gets screwed up as text is wrapped, and it's more difficult to read. In my interpretation, Linus believes this results in lost efficiency, which gets worse the more commit messages you have to read/handle on larger/more active projects.
If you work within GitHub's UI only (and rarely look at your shortlog / git log on the command line), you'll never know about this because the web UI hides this fact. That seems to be what Linus is getting at - that the tool (git itself) was built to be awesome on *nix platforms, and GitHub effectively ignores this aspect of git.
Finally, since the web UI doesn't enforce the proposed standard, you effectively create two groups of people: people who work through the web UI (or other UI-based tools), and people who work from the command line. Only the command-line people really suffer. However, if everyone (even people who work in the web UI) would conform to the standard, not only is everyone happy, but it encourages people who write commit messages to be more succinct, effective, and precise in their messages.
That's pretty much what I took from it.
Re: Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
#7Nice summary, though the tone of the discussion is a bit tense.
Much of the other HN message board centers on the tone of the conversation. I think an important message that shouldn't be lost is:
Emulate Linus' style in commit messages if you wish.
Don't emulate the abrasiveness in his style of communicating (unless you have a track record as good as his).
Re: Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
#8I still don't understand what the problem is. Is it that github doesn't enforce a commit message standard? Or is it that github doesn't allow you to follow a commit message standard such as what Linus uses? Does git itself enforce a standard, for that matter? What exactly is the deficiency in github?
The deficiency basically has to do with git being primarily a command-line tool, and as such, it's most powerful/native tools are built to be perfect for viewing plain text/in the command line (which are also mono-spaced). As such, when you view commit messages that are too long in the command line, the formatting gets screwed up as text is wrapped, and it's more difficult to read. In my interpretation, Linus believe…
Right, that makes perfect sense.
However, I still fail to understand Linus' outright refusal to even accept submissions made via a web interface rather than simply say "when you do a pull request, it must follow this format".
Re: Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
#9It's more than formatting-- it's also identity verification, for example using email addresses and/or digital signatures.
Re: Lessons from torvalds/GitHub commits discussion
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
The deficiency basically has to do with git being primarily a command-line tool, and as such, it's most powerful/native tools are built to be perfect for viewing plain text/in the command line (which are also mono-spaced). As such, when you view commit messages that are too long in the command line, the formatting gets screwed up as text is wrapped, and it's more difficult to read. In my interpretation, Linus believe…
Right, that makes perfect sense. However, I still fail to understand Linus' outright refusal to even accept submissions made via a web interface rather than simply say "when you do a pull request, it must follow this format".
He explains it here:
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-56599...
In particular, "the quality of stuff I have seen from people who use the github web interfaces has been so low that it's not worth my time."