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Home Lab Beginners guide

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Re: Home Lab Beginners guide

#361
post #353
post #149

> Location For a few years I put mine inside an IKEA FRIHETEN sofa (the kind that just pulls†). Pros: - easy access - completely invisible save for 1 power wire + 1 fiber (WAN) + 1 eth (LAN)†† - structure allows easy cable routing out (worst case you punch a hole on the thin low-end) - easy layout/cable routing inside - noise reduction for free - doubles as warming in winter a seated butt is never cold - spouse enjoy…

This is amazing. Do you have an actual photo with your servers inside or anything? I would be really worried about ventilation and heat / fire risk. Reminds me of the lack rack. https://archive.is/Uf2k3

Unfortunately no. I moved its content out when I added big spinning rust to the system.

Although I did some yelling^Wsitting test and found it to be surprisingly impervious it was not so much to the furniture moving scenario.

That, and the UPS being the unlikely-but-real fire hazard. Old man printers-and-shotguns, y'know.

(disclaimer: I'm an internet rando, not a fireman, seek professional guidance)

But then again it's going to be a fire hazard anywhere except in a fireproof enclosure: it may give warm fuzzies that it's kept in sight but a) these things pack a ton of energy and would burn fast and long; b) fire propagates stupidly quick in residential locations; c) you're not looking at it 24/7, far from it.

In a way, ok the whole thing is fuel surrounding it, but this fuel first needs to be consumed for the fire to fully break out. IKEA products are also already designed with some form of fireproofness in mind (e.g textile and foam won't burn as easily as you'd think). It won't resist long but it may comparatively give a few seconds delay before it makes it worse and breaks out to the whole room.

This time could be improved by lining the interior with fire retardant panels, including the underside of the sitting area. Given the roomy boxy shape of it it should be quite easy to do. If done right it could even be near-airtight, so that fire could delay/choke itself due to lack of O2. This would need active ventilation for thermals, but it could shut itself down on a reasonable heuristic indicating trouble. Heck now I'm thinking automatically injecting CO2/spraying water droplets to further quench. Oh, an engineer's imagination running wild.

The most recommended - and much cheaper - investment though would be a fire/smoke detector, as whether in sight or not, with such fires the most sensible general recommendation one could make would be:

a) be alerted as early as possible, preferably before any flame/smoke is visible.

b) immediately get out, like, RIGHT NOW. Think after. Life is the one thing of true value that cannot be replaced.

I'm not kidding. You have ~30s tops from the beep to get the whole family out. After that smoke is irrevocably incapacitating and flashover is only a short minute away.

Watch this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JGIICiX2CNI&t=141

Then watch it again, roleplaying yourself having to be woken up by the alarm, then having to navigate through smoke, heat, and panic to get the spouse and kids out. These 30s are going to be awfully shorter IRL than they already appear watching the video.

End of interlude.

Ventilation was passive yet OK, temps were higher that open air of course but good. A thing that helped is that I did not put your run-of-the-mill Xeon server blade in there, that would be dumb, although it would make for a nice synesthetic experience when watching Top Gun.

So I aimed for passive cooled stuff (ISP ONT+router, RPis, bunch of USB portable SSDs and HDDs) or active but low thermal requirements (headless Mac Mini, 5-disk bay, UPS). I monitored temps and they were well within parameters, I've seen much worse numbers in actual server rooms. The most noisy things were the 3.5" 7200rpm drives spinning up and seeking (constant rotation was inaudible) and the disk bay fan (lousy unlubricated bearing).

Given the side panel size, pretty sure one could hack active ventilation with big near-silent fans.

Re: Home Lab Beginners guide

#362
post #39

The article is good, but it is intimidating buy its size and scope. A homelab could be a single NUC on a desk. I have one with 64GB RAM and it could fit so so many things. NUCs are very efficient to run 24/7, but become noisy with sustained CPU load. For that one could grow the setup with OptiPlex or Precision Tower (can haz ECC) SFF from eBay. These Dell SFFs are very good, quite small yet proper desktops/servers wi…

In addition to that, I don't think people should overthink the rack as an essential component. I like racks as much as the next guy and homelab racks look really cool but for usability and learning, just go with whatever you like. I personally have 4 boxes stacked in a corner that are connected to a "rack", which is just two rack side panels bolted to the back of a workbench that I screw components into, connected to…

Get a DIN-rail and some mounting brackets

Re: Home Lab Beginners guide

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always the $70 IKEA Lack Rack: https://www.instructables.com/The-$70-IKEA-Mini-Server-Rack/

Most of the things on r/homelab and elsewhere are not wooden racks. Most are expensive server racks retrofitted to be vanity projects to serve videos to at most 2 people in a home. It's fine, it's just that people should be honest about what these are.

Interesting you mention 2 people.

I got kids. So I got a lot of toys in the living room. The small office I got, does contain a printer, a PC, a space for my laptop plus dock, a server, a switch, and a small cluster. But what I don't have is more space. I don't have space for a rack.

Furthermore I've been replacing industrial grade fans (in switches, desktop, the cluster and the like) which make a lot of noise (and cool very well) with Noctua which are expensive and have less CFM but are silent enough.

Re: Home Lab Beginners guide

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I really like odroid H2/H3 units (0). Much cheaper then Nuc's, DDR4 SO-DIMMs up to 64G, very low power draw, and X86 based so no compatibility issues. No where near as powerful as desktops but more then enough for running basic home lab stuff. I used to use a half rack full of Xeon based Dell and HP blades - but the blade chassis are huge/heavy and the power usage was HUGE! 0) https://ameridroid.com/produ…

How much is "huge"? My HP Proliant idles around 175W, and even running Folding@Home it only peaks at around 300W. Considering that I used lots of incandescent light bulbs throughout my house, each about 60W, 175W doesn't really seem that bad to me. Granted, this is one server. If you have a bunch of them running at high load all at once then of course that can get pretty pricey power-wise.

> Considering that I used lots of incandescent light bulbs throughout my house, each about 60W, 175W doesn't really seem that bad to me.

Well, your monthly power bill would be much higher than needed with either those light bulbs or a server like that.

Those light bulbs can be cheap to replace with more efficient variants. This was already true approx 30 years ago, back in the 90s.

I got solar power. Without that, I wouldn't be having a Xeon server right now.

Don't get me wrong, to each their own! That is the fun thing with homelab. You can optimize for power, price, noise, size, heat, or a combination of these. Then you can decide to have a couple of machines dedicated or have one large VM. Then you pick the OSes.

For example, right now I am settled for my homelab server. I got a cluster to play with, too. I got a 10 gbit switch (which I only put on if I need the speed, otherwise I use a second hand Brocade with 10 gbit SFP+ uplink). Loads of fun. But my router is just an Edgerouter-Lite. EdgeOS is dead, and it doesn't have failover nor does it run a VM. If I run it in bridge mode (which I do now) and I use Wireguard it doesn't saturate 1 gbit at all. So I am looking for an alternative which is a bit future proof. Ie. with SFP+ because I will get fiber instead of DSL eventually.

Re: Home Lab Beginners guide

#365
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Power draw and often noise on enterprise equipment is ridiculous in a home setting. I try to stick to the small form factor (SFF) or ultra-small form factor (USFF) computers whenever I can, which is what the author is using. I used to use Raspberry Pi boards for some things but always ran into problems w/ microSD cards dying, even with log2ram and buying industrial cards. I haven't had a single issue after sw…

Which x64 machines have you been using? I'm looking for a successor to PC Engines APUs

The N100 is the current thing. It is in a large variety of form factors with a variety of available connectivity options.

N100 sips power while performing as well as a 60w quad core Skylake.

Re: Home Lab Beginners guide

#366
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to that, I don't think people should overthink the rack as an essential component. I like racks as much as the next guy and homelab racks look really cool but for usability and learning, just go with whatever you like. I personally have 4 boxes stacked in a corner that are connected to a "rack", which is just two rack side panels bolted to the back of a workbench that I screw components into, connected to…

From what I've seen on reddit's /r/homelab, the neat thing about racked systems is you can buy very cheap used hardware that are discards from enterprise uses. There's very little market for an old server or rackmount network switch so you can get very good bargains. Personally I buy new cheap mini PCs and consumer networking stuff. That's another way to get bargains, since consumer hardware is so cheap. But I'm a bi…

I haven't seen any mention of going to scrap yards in this thread, but just about every general-purpose yard ive been in has had racks of some kind. Hard to beat scrap price as racks themselves tend to be light when empty.

Re: Home Lab Beginners guide

#367
post #236
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually went the complete opposite way and I run RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux - with the developer subcription) or RockyLinux at home. Because: > "wait, how did I fix that thing 6mo ago?" Such things just don't happen. That thing (RHEL/RockyLinux) just doesn't break. I do update software once every six (or more) months, reboot and it just works. I have notes on how I did stuff, if necessary. I used to keep ansib…

>I have notes on how I did stuff, if necessary. I used to keep ansible playbooks but they were just an overkill. Does it even make sense to write a playbook for a system that I'll reinstall in three or four years ? Probably not. Yea, sure, except what if the one-time configuration was in a Nix file that will continue being exactly as useful for years? Folks applying the Ansible mindset to NixOS are missing the point.…

> Yea, sure, except what if the one-time configuration was in a Nix file that will continue being exactly as useful for years?

Still useless. Software change, the configs i make today might not make sense or even work in 3-5 years.

Nix and stuff (ansible etc) only make sense if you have to reinstall your systems multiple times in a single week (fine if your hobby is reinstalling linux on your laptop).

But if you do a full reinstall once every five years then it’s largely an exercise in futility.

Re: Home Lab Beginners guide

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts exactly. Anyone from Proxmox reading? Could it be that you're leaving money on the table here?

Proxmox Dev here, albeit personally speaking here, so do not make more out of it than the educated opinion this is. No, I do not think we leave much money at the table. In short, we're targeting enterprise users with a mix of a (soft) stick (e.g. pop-up to note that one isn't having the most production ready experience) a carrot (way better tested updates and depending on the level also enterprise support). Homelab u…

Hey, thanks for your reply!

Just wanted to say proxmox is great and you and your colleagues are doing an amazing job!

Keep rocking!

Re: Home Lab Beginners guide

#369
post #331
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or as a compromise, you can buy strips of appropriately spaced/sized square-punched metal angle; before I moved I built a shelf unit designed so that the depth of the shelf was correct (19" between posts plus a bit for the sheet metal thickness) for a rack, I had access to the side so I had a combination shelf & rack. People do similarly with Ikea tables ('lack rack'). Nice thing about the shelves was that I could bu…

Thing is, you can get pre-built racks on amazon for < $100 that are both sturdy and designed for it. with removable sides, or casters, or whatever. For a little more you can get nice wooden audio racks that are spouse-friendly.. ish.

Ok? I chose to build sometbing custom fit to my space, and the rack mounting strip things were <£10 on eBay. Obviously the wood brings it more to '<$100' realm, but I was also just building a shelving unit. My point wasn't really cost anyway, I didn't mention it, my point was just that 'rack' doesn't have to mean floor standing 4-sided 42U behemoth from a supplier surprised to be delivering to a residential address, on which point we're agreeing.

Re: Home Lab Beginners guide

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've seen on reddit's /r/homelab, the neat thing about racked systems is you can buy very cheap used hardware that are discards from enterprise uses. There's very little market for an old server or rackmount network switch so you can get very good bargains. Personally I buy new cheap mini PCs and consumer networking stuff. That's another way to get bargains, since consumer hardware is so cheap. But I'm a bi…

The caveat to this is noise. People who have never seen a rack server in person don't understand how loud they really are. PSUs, case fans, cpu fans (if applicable) all gotta go. You kind of have to go into it knowing you are going to spend an additional $100-200 replacing it all, and that's assuming you will not have to 3D print a custom bracket to house the new fans.

Yep, the noise is serious. I may not even seem that bad at first, but if you are going to hear it prolonged, it starts to get really unbearable after a 20 minutes of it. I don't know anybody who isn't irritable after a couple hours.

And the heat is enough to make a room very uncomfortable. I started my home lab in my office, and it didn't take long to realize that was not an option. Luckily I was able to find a nook under the stairs where I could stash it, but the heat and noise are polar opposite of a productive office environment.

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