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Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

theguardian.com

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

#71

Post by bdjsiqoocwk »

eqvinox wrote: post #38
asciimov wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the issues with the 737 Max 8 are significant. Major malfunctions are not the norm on airlines.

I don't think the lost tyre qualifies for a major malfunction, and the greenery excursion might well be pilot error. The engine fire I'm not sure about, it being a 21yo plane. Give the NTSB some time for proper reports...

> I don't think the lost tyre qualifies for a major malfunction

Just reminding everyone here that on take off planes are loaded with fuel. However minor the cause may seem to our expert HN commentators, if that leaks and ignites almost for sure a significant fraction of the people on board will die.

Re: Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

#72

Post by ortusdux »

gopher_space wrote: post #49
ortusdux wrote: post #11

Are the recent issues statistically significant or are people just paying more attention?

Statistically insignificant issues regarding flight don't really make the news. Keep in mind that your flat tire is a bummer, their flat tire could kill a thousand people.

> Statistically insignificant issues regarding flight don't really make the news.

Except they do when airline safety is trending in the news. In 2019, the NTSB registered 40 accidents involving damage to a major air carrier or injury to a passenger. That is about 1 major event every 10 days. It's been 18 days since the last major event (door blowing off).

https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/StatisticalReviews/Pages/CivilAv...

Re: Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

#73

Post by eqvinox »

pugworthy wrote: post #63
bagels wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying tire, but the whole wheel came off. Still likely maintenance/inspection related.

Best to find out if the wheel issue led to going off the runway or going off the runway led to the wheel issue.

You're mixing up two incidents, we now have:

- the 737 MAX8 going into the greenery

- the 777-200 losing a wheel

- the 737 (21yo, not MAX) with an engine fire after takeoff (this sounds bad but can be just bird-rich intake air due to very poor luck)

- the 737-8 rudder servo freeze NTSB report (which is the only thing with actual insights available, the servo involved appears out of spec)

Re: Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

#74

Post by apgwoz »

fxd123 wrote: post #28
apgwoz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

737 MAX can land with missing or damaged tires as well. It's a legal requirement for large passenger planes

Maybe I've become incredibly biased against the 737 MAX through years of reporting / citations of substantial problems, but I'm sort of in the "ha! I'll believe it when I see it" for the MAX to do anything properly.

Re: Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

#75

Post by Cacti »

dralley wrote: post #48
spiderxxxx wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speculation is what we do, doesn't harm anyone, and is good to prime the brain for more detailed technical information. I'm fine with it. In fact, I think I learn more about how these systems interoperate by the speculation.

No, there's definitely the potential for harm. Considering United has had 3 accidents in the past week, dogpiling Boeing for something that might not be their fault has the side effect of potentially letting United off the hook - if they're at fault. Which maybe both are, or maybe neither are, but the dogpile won't help sort that out.

Oh, there’s no doubt United is capable of this all on their own.

Re: Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

#76

Post by eqvinox »

bdjsiqoocwk wrote: post #71
eqvinox wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the lost tyre qualifies for a major malfunction, and the greenery excursion might well be pilot error. The engine fire I'm not sure about, it being a 21yo plane. Give the NTSB some time for proper reports...

> I don't think the lost tyre qualifies for a major malfunction Just reminding everyone here that on take off planes are loaded with fuel. However minor the cause may seem to our expert HN commentators, if that leaks and ignites almost for sure a significant fraction of the people on board will die.

You're right, but at the same time I've read enough NTSB reports to know tyres (admittedly not entire wheels) fail rather frequently. (Normally during landing.) And getting the fuel ignited is not that easy on modern planes.

But yeah we need to wait for the NTSB.

Re: Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

#77

Post by gopher_space »

ortusdux wrote: post #72
gopher_space wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically insignificant issues regarding flight don't really make the news. Keep in mind that your flat tire is a bummer, their flat tire could kill a thousand people.

> Statistically insignificant issues regarding flight don't really make the news. Except they do when airline safety is trending in the news. In 2019, the NTSB registered 40 accidents involving damage to a major air carrier or injury to a passenger. That is about 1 major event every 10 days. It's been 18 days since the last major event (door blowing off). https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/StatisticalReviews/Pages/CivilAv..…

I'm suggesting that the types of issues an engineer wouldn't consider to be significant would actually be too boring to report on.

Re: Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

#78

Post by fnordpiglet »

hef19898 wrote: post #66
eweise wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Oliver has a great segment on why Boeing planes are crap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc

If that's what you took from that segmwnt, you should watch it again.

Really? I hadn’t watched it, so just invested the 30 minutes into doing that, and that’s EXACTLY what I got out of it.

And that incest, sexual harassment, lying, and contract hanky panky is a big thing in Boeing executive culture.

Re: Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

#79

Post by fnordpiglet »

dralley wrote: post #7

Accounts on twitter claiming to have been on the airplane recounted that the aircraft went off the runway first, and that the gear failure, if there was one, happened after the plane left the runway. "737 Max suffers landing gear failure" is a sexy headline but it may be prudent to wait for a bit more information before jumping to too many conclusions - just because Boeing is fresh in everyone's minds. Wild speculati…

The fact the headline is probable enough that most people will read it at face value without questioning is undeniably Boeings fault.

Re: Boeing 737 MAX suffers landing gear failure, rolls off runway

#80

Post by coolThingsFirst »

mckn1ght wrote: post #43
coolThingsFirst wrote: post #12

Safest mode of travel strikes again

If you say so. > The number of deaths per passenger-mile on commercial airlines in the United States between 2000 and 2010 was about 0.2 deaths per 10 billion passenger-miles. For driving, the rate was 150 per 10 billion vehicle-miles: 750 times higher per mile than for flying in a commercial airplane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_U... I'll take 1:750 odds.

Per mile is a bad metric, why don’t you calculate per trip?
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