Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice • Hacker News Board

Re: Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice

#51

Post by BrianHV » Sat, May 12, 2012, 7:57 PM UTC

tjoff wrote: post #35

ccc3 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that comment actually misses Susan Cain's point entirely. Here's a quote from Ms. Cain: "Shyness and introversion are not the same thing. Shy people fear negative judgment, while introverts simply prefer less stimulation; shyness is inherently painful, and introversion is not." [1] If you accept that definition of shyness, then it is necessarily bad. Living with fear and pain is bad. Missing opportunities to…

Shy people fear negative judgment What? While I absolutely agree that introversion and shyness are not the same thing (although they probably often reinforce each other) I've never heard and deeply disagrees with that definition of shyness. Shyness has nothing to do with fearing negative judgment. Wikipedia says: In humans, shyness (also called diffidence) is a social psychology term used to describe the feeling of a…

"Shy people fear negative judgment" is a bit facile on its own; it was sort of mentioned in passing in her TED talk. But it's actually not far from my understanding of the subject. (IANA psychologist, though.)

The wikipedia quote you gave lists apprehension, discomfort, and awkwardness as the feelings that are symptomatic of shyness. Those feelings strongly imply a fear of something—some negative consequence that might result from a given social interaction. If that weren't the case, why would you feel apprehensive, uncomfortable, or awkward?

Many people recognize their anxiety, even if they don't label it, but either don't notice or actively deny that there might be an underlying belief that causes it. Beliefs can be things like, "She's going to notice how awkward I am," or, "I have no idea what to do in this situation," or, "If I screw this up I'll never live it down." An eye-opener for me was reading an inventory in a social anxiety book and seeing exactly how many of the distorted thoughts I accepted about myself without even knowing it.

It's also worth mentioning that cognitive behavioral therapy is largely about becoming aware of these anxiety-provoking beliefs and developing different responses to them. If anyone reading this is interested in trying to reduce their shyness, I recommend researching this approach.

Re: Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice

#52

Post by grourk » Sat, May 12, 2012, 8:05 PM UTC

Didn't read the article, but I read the headline to my wife who has a Masters in Clinical Psychology and is studying for her MFT license exam. Her response, "That's garbage. Shyness isn't a bad habit, it's a personality trait; and it's perfectly normal." She went on, "The American culture tends to favor the extraverted, but studies show that introverts have just as meaningful lives as extraverts. They tend to have a more refined sense of self, they tend to know what they like, and they tend to be more selective with their friends. Introverts make great leaders and work well in groups, they don't demand extra attention."

She points out that people conflate anxiety with shyness. Same with anti-social habits and behaviors. Being under-socialized and not open to new experiences... I'd guess that's what this lifehacker article is doing. So if it's encouraging people to open themselves up a little more, more power to it. But please stop making "shyness" out to be some kind of defect!

Re: Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice

#53

Post by maxxxxx » Sat, May 12, 2012, 8:11 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #48

spodek wrote: post #17

Mention introversion and shyness, especially around geeks, and many people will come out saying, "I like being shy," "I'm an introvert, that's just the way I am," and things like that. Different people learn social skills differently. For me they were incredibly hard to learn, but my life improved so much with each bit that learning each bit motivated me to learn the next. Now nobody can believe I was ever not outgoi…

I was shy well into my 20s. My problem initially was that my parents weren't very social people and never taught me the social skills I needed. This combined with low self-esteem (which I think built-up from the low social skills), made me a really shy person. The real problem is that opportunities can and will pass you by when you aren't social (in most companies, you most likely won't get promoted). I wasted a lot…

It's great if it worked for you. I did the same and forced myself into social situations for years. I became quite functioning socially after a few years but I never got really comfortable and in the end had to stop because I was completely exhausted. I also went through therapy with the same result and the therapist basically telling that I am a loser. Psychological problems are difficult. Most obese people probably know pretty well how to lose weight but they just can't do it. Same for alcoholics.

Re: Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice

#54

Post by grourk » Sat, May 12, 2012, 8:16 PM UTC

spodek wrote: post #17

Mention introversion and shyness, especially around geeks, and many people will come out saying, "I like being shy," "I'm an introvert, that's just the way I am," and things like that. Different people learn social skills differently. For me they were incredibly hard to learn, but my life improved so much with each bit that learning each bit motivated me to learn the next. Now nobody can believe I was ever not outgoi…

"Some people say shyness is like gayness, something your born with. I haven't observed that to be the case, not that I've researched it."

It actually is the case, for those who have researched it. Simplistic example that demonstrates this: I have two 1-year-old nieces. If you say, "Hi!" to one she gets excited, looks you in the eye, and smiles and giggles. Do the same with the other and she'll smile but immediately bury her face in her shoulder.

I think what you're talking about -- and many of the other comments on this page -- isn't shyness, but something completely different that actually has a much more descriptive name: Social Anxiety Disorder.

Re: Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice

#55

Post by tjoff » Sat, May 12, 2012, 8:25 PM UTC

BrianHV wrote: post #51

tjoff wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shy people fear negative judgment What? While I absolutely agree that introversion and shyness are not the same thing (although they probably often reinforce each other) I've never heard and deeply disagrees with that definition of shyness. Shyness has nothing to do with fearing negative judgment. Wikipedia says: In humans, shyness (also called diffidence) is a social psychology term used to describe the feeling of a…

"Shy people fear negative judgment" is a bit facile on its own; it was sort of mentioned in passing in her TED talk. But it's actually not far from my understanding of the subject. (IANA psychologist, though.) The wikipedia quote you gave lists apprehension, discomfort, and awkwardness as the feelings that are symptomatic of shyness. Those feelings strongly imply a fear of something —some negative consequence that mi…

If that weren't the case, why would you feel apprehensive, uncomfortable, or awkward?

Because it is irrational? People can have phobias against pretty much anything, even if you know that the fear is irrational and groundless you can still be petrified by it.

Shyness is particularly common among small children, I don't think they fear negative judgment.

Re: Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice

#56

Post by drumdance » Sat, May 12, 2012, 8:40 PM UTC

tjoff wrote: post #55

BrianHV wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Shy people fear negative judgment" is a bit facile on its own; it was sort of mentioned in passing in her TED talk. But it's actually not far from my understanding of the subject. (IANA psychologist, though.) The wikipedia quote you gave lists apprehension, discomfort, and awkwardness as the feelings that are symptomatic of shyness. Those feelings strongly imply a fear of something —some negative consequence that mi…

If that weren't the case, why would you feel apprehensive, uncomfortable, or awkward? Because it is irrational? People can have phobias against pretty much anything, even if you know that the fear is irrational and groundless you can still be petrified by it. Shyness is particularly common among small children, I don't think they fear negative judgment.

Yes, it's irrational, but usually if you ask someone to really unpack why they fear X, they can explain an exact scenario. Often just the process of explaining it oneself helps you get over the fear.

Children certainly fear negative judgement. Think how many times they hear the word "no" and get a nasty look from their parents.

Re: Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice

#57

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 12, 2012, 8:47 PM UTC

hnhg wrote: post #41

bane wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Different people learn social skills differently. For me they were incredibly hard to learn... Precisely. I like the introvert/extrovert description of recharges alone/recharges with other people. I grew up as a serious introvert, but my parents knew the value of social skills. One day my father turned it from a chore into an introvert-style learning exercise by framing it as a skill to be learned and not a quality…

I read your definition, and thought, "Yeah, I'm an introvert because I like to recharge alone." But then my next thought was, "Actually, it depends on how I'm feeling." Often I seek company because I like to recharge with other people. Am I an extrovert or introvert? I don't feel like I'm in one or the other for the particular majority of time. I don't believe it's a great model for describing everyone. For the recor…

[deleted]

Re: Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice

#58

Post by bane » Sat, May 12, 2012, 9:03 PM UTC

hnhg wrote: post #41

bane wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Different people learn social skills differently. For me they were incredibly hard to learn... Precisely. I like the introvert/extrovert description of recharges alone/recharges with other people. I grew up as a serious introvert, but my parents knew the value of social skills. One day my father turned it from a chore into an introvert-style learning exercise by framing it as a skill to be learned and not a quality…

I read your definition, and thought, "Yeah, I'm an introvert because I like to recharge alone." But then my next thought was, "Actually, it depends on how I'm feeling." Often I seek company because I like to recharge with other people. Am I an extrovert or introvert? I don't feel like I'm in one or the other for the particular majority of time. I don't believe it's a great model for describing everyone. For the recor…

I agree, there are some people, close friends & usually in small groups of 2 or 3 people, I love to spend lots of time with and don't feel worn down after spending time with them.

And in certain groups with a good vibe they can be incredibly fun.

But in the general case I'm definitely an introvert. A week of sales calls runs me into the ground by the end for example.

Re: Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice

#59

Post by hcarvalhoalves » Sun, May 13, 2012, 3:16 AM UTC

Being introverted is one thing, being shy is another.

Introversion is a personality trait. It means you tend to spend more of your time on internal thought processes - that is, you tend to "reflect" more, as opposed to "interacting" more. Also, introverts are more self-aware. That's completely normal.

On the other hand, being shy is just avoiding exposing yourself. If taken to extremes, it keeps you from living life. That's not normal.

It's perfectly possible to be introverted but not shy. In fact, if you talk to actors and musicians (or anyone involved with artistic expression), you'll find a surprinsingly high number of them consider themselves introverts.

Re: Being Shy Is Just a Bad Habit, and You Can Break It With Regular Practice

#60

Post by DennisP » Sun, May 13, 2012, 2:44 PM UTC

spodek wrote: post #17

Mention introversion and shyness, especially around geeks, and many people will come out saying, "I like being shy," "I'm an introvert, that's just the way I am," and things like that. Different people learn social skills differently. For me they were incredibly hard to learn, but my life improved so much with each bit that learning each bit motivated me to learn the next. Now nobody can believe I was ever not outgoi…

I like being introverted. I enjoy spending time alone with my thoughts.

I hated being shy, which made me anxious in social situations. People confuse these a lot. Anxiety is pretty much always a negative. Introversion can be a big positive.

Getting over being shy took a long time and it basically just took a lot of practice...putting myself in social situations despite my fears.