Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Men In Tech

wekeroad.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 155 posts

Re: Men In Tech

#111

Post by lucisferre »

cwp wrote: post #32
lucisferre wrote: post #25

The comments here so far are mind bogglingly stupid. It's intended as a satire, simple as that. Try not to over think it guys.

Satire, huh? So by telling a story of sexism with the genders reversed, the author is slyly poking fun at all the fuss about sexism in tech that we've been hearing lately, and showing us how ridiculous it all is. That's an interesting take, 'cause I sure didn't read it that way. To me it seems more like a straight put-yourself-in-her-shoes appeal to empathy for women who brave the tech industry.

> To me it seems more like a straight put-yourself-in-her-shoes appeal to empathy for women who brave the tech industry.

Yes, done as satire...

Re: Men In Tech

#112

Post by NotMyMorals »

zenogais wrote: post #8
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #5

Hmm, not completely sure what this article is getting at but it seems to be implying that men and women are the same and would feel the same way when reacting to such things as sexual harassment and whether or not you're desirable to the opposite sex. That's basically a completely false premise. Because of biological facts and the resultant social history, men and women have completely different values and attitudes…

I'm kinda hoping this is a joke, but I'm also guessing not. The point is you would feel as helpless and frustrated as women do now if the tables were turned and the entire social structure was set up so as to belittle you and give you little recourse to respond. Also men and women are very similar in terms of values and attitudes towards sex regardless of the prevailing popular myths.

>Also men and women are very similar in terms of values and attitudes towards sex regardless of the prevailing popular myths.

In the sense they both expect different values and attitudes towards sex from men and women.

Keep your religion-derived asexual "men and women are the same" nonsense to your church or feminist club.

Re: Men In Tech

#113

Post by wpietri »

s_baby wrote: post #107
wpietri wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Derailment is a purely rhetorical technique, so I'm not seeing the problem. I agree that patriarchy is bad for pretty much everybody. But the rhetorical effect of "but what about the time a woman was mean to meeeee" isn't to raise awareness of power dynamics so that people see the real issue as patriarchy or kyriarchy and find action even more urgent. It's to devalue the given examples of sexist behavior so that the…

>Derailment is a purely rhetorical technique, so I'm not seeing the problem. The problem is you made an appeal to authority to "derailing for dummies"... >It's to devalue the given examples of sexist behavior so that the privileged person can avoid confronting their privilege. Half of those points could be made by someone who has no intention of derailing. They can be legitimate observations.

No. I personally am calling that a common derailing tactic; I just linked to that as evidence that other people also see it as a problem. If you have some counter-evidence, feel free to present it.

As I explained elsewhere in this thread, most people don't intend to derail. What matters isn't the conscious intent of the speaker; it's the effect on the conversation.

That X is a legitimate observation doesn't mean that X is also a valid contribution at any point in any discussion. Watch politicians spin something on a TV show. They can make valid observations all day long that avoid, obfuscate, dodge, color, distract, mislead, and misinform.

If a privileged person jumps into a discussion about injustice in a way that changes the topic from the injustice under discussion to something more comfortable for them, that's derailing. They can do that using a valid observation, an invalid observation, a rhetorical device, or a jack-in-the-box.

Also, Mr. Brand New Anonymous Account: if you aren't going to own your words, expect me to stop responding shortly.

Re: Men In Tech

#114

Post by NotMyMorals »

sasha-dv wrote: post #47

Just what women need! Another middle-aged white man fighting for the women's rights. It's condescending. It's just a step away from "A Gay Girl in Damascus".

I agree with you - you will never find me, as a man, "fighting for women's rights."

My t-shirt says "This is What a Feminist Looks At."

Re: Men In Tech

#115

Post by kejmen »

JanezStupar wrote: post #76
kejmen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like a jerk, that's why you and your jerk friends got beaten up. Why couldn't man and women protect themselves the same way? And WTF does it mean "women can protect themselves in very simple ways: stay with other people, and watch what you're eating."

You obviously never got assaulted by strangers for just passing by?

No, you obviously got because Slovenia is real ghetto.

Re: Men In Tech

#116

Post by bdg »

I don't really like my neighbours, so I get changed with the blinds open. It's different when you're a man.

Re: Men In Tech

#117

Post by NotMyMorals »

TheSOB88 wrote: post #96
JanezStupar wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are obviously not an attractive male. I've had to put up with quite a lot from women of all kinds and I'm not even that attractive. I'm not going to say more, since I will get called a pussy and a bitch. But lets please stop pretending that only men are perverts and that all sexual discrimination and indecent behavior towards other people comes from men.

You obviously are a jerk. But sadly that's also normal amongst our CS population.

>You obviously are a jerk.

And you are obviously a "nice guy."

Re: Men In Tech

#118

Post by NotMyMorals »

orangecat wrote: post #102
ericabiz wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I have no idea if you are a woman or a man, but as a woman in tech, I feel compelled to reply. I appreciated this story. Not so much the comments attached to it on HN, but the story itself. If it got some guys thinking about how they would feel if this happened: "You don't look like a programmer! When did you get into computers? That's kinda hot..." Which has happened to me so many times I've lost count...usually…

If it got some guys thinking about how they would feel if this happened: "You don't look like a programmer! When did you get into computers? That's kinda hot..." I'd have no problem with that at all, especially I found the woman attractive. As others have said, just flipping the genders in scenarios like that doesn't often work. And is that really an awful way for guys to hit on you? They're going to do that anyway,…

>And is that really an awful way for guys to hit on you? They're going to do that anyway, and at least this way they're expressing interest in your interests, rather than just staring at your chest.

If the man is attractive, women will generally welcome the flirtation. If he is unattractive, the woman will generally perceive it as an insult to her attractiveness, since the man should know better, that she is "out of his league."

Also, can anyone explain why it is considered a "good thing" to have a gender balance in tech, or any industry? Who decided that every industry must have an equal number of men and women?

Re: Men In Tech

#119

Post by DanBC »

NotMyMorals wrote: post #118
orangecat wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it got some guys thinking about how they would feel if this happened: "You don't look like a programmer! When did you get into computers? That's kinda hot..." I'd have no problem with that at all, especially I found the woman attractive. As others have said, just flipping the genders in scenarios like that doesn't often work. And is that really an awful way for guys to hit on you? They're going to do that anyway,…

>And is that really an awful way for guys to hit on you? They're going to do that anyway, and at least this way they're expressing interest in your interests, rather than just staring at your chest. If the man is attractive, women will generally welcome the flirtation. If he is unattractive, the woman will generally perceive it as an insult to her attractiveness, since the man should know better, that she is "out of…

> Also, can anyone explain why it is considered a "good thing" to have a gender balance in tech, or any industry?

We strive for a balance because that's a good way to avoid excluding people. Excluding groups of people is bad because they may have different ways to attack problems or different insights to bring to development etc.

Mono-cultures are generally weak and vulnerable. Diversity is generally robust.

Re: Men In Tech

#120

Post by yummyfajitas »

knowtheory wrote: post #93
nowarninglabel wrote: post #7

I've been appreciating all the articles on HN calling out sexism in the [tech] workplace. It's actually made me change my own behavior at work, though I've been told I never offended anyone, I've started doing things like never saying "that's what she said" as well as chastising co-workers when they say it. It would be nice if there were something to say instead, that could still add a lightness and moment of comedy…

I've been trying to figure out whether turnaround is fair play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxvujEmyiPQ

I'm confused - is the video mocking women who whine about "that's what she said" jokes?
Post reply on HN