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Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

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Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#71

Post by hirvi74 »

static_void_ wrote: post #61

You can't have imposter syndrome with out the conscious or unconscious idea that you've "fooled" all the rubes around you into thinking you're good at something. Even in doubt you're still doing some mental gymnastics that allow you to place yourself above your peers. It's inherently self centered and arrogant way of thinking about yourself. The opposite of self aware.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment or Imposter Syndrome, but isn't someone with Imposter Syndrome placing themselves below their peers their actual abilities?

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#72

Post by hirvi74 »

helpfulmandrill wrote: post #10

Just because you have imposter syndrome doesn't mean you#re competent ;)

That's me to a tee.

I have been told I have imposter syndrome by many people. I get all the "You are better than you think you are" and "Trust me, I've seen worse than you."

Regardless, I think I have a pretty accurate assessment of my abilities. I have been professionally programming for 7 years (10 years total) and have a degree in CS.

That being said, I have no fucking idea what I am doing 99% of the time. I just follow guides and documents, and just glue libraries together like a cyber plumber. I probably couldn't even reverse a string by hand if my life depended on it. My job has a pretty low bar for what is considered acceptable, so I have been able to fly under the radar with ease all these years. I'm not being modest, I am being serious. The jaws of many users here would hit the floor if they saw some of our practices.

However, the good news for me is that I do not have to remain like this. Over the past few months or so, I have really tried to increase my knowledge by diving face first in books, lectures, and other resources. I feel like I have improved significantly in this short amount of time. I mean, I am basically starting all over again, but hey, I can maintain the status quo or I can do something about it.

I guess my whole point is that, one may be an "imposter" and/or incompetent, but it's also one's choice to remain as one.

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#73

Post by jjeaff »

fsckboy wrote: post #13

I feel like some perspective needs to be applied to these popular terms. Imposter syndrome: there's a "sadness is not depression" thing going on here. There is an actual Imposter Syndrome that afflicts people who are highly qualified/credentialed, people who have qualified for entrance into elite programs, and put in the time and effort to progress to graduation; and yet for psychological reasons, they have great sel…

The Dunning Kruger studies were observations, but I believe I have seen the term "Dunning Kruger Effect" used pretty often to describe the possibly/likely explanation to why Dunning Kruger observed what they did. Which is that once someone learns just a little bit about a complex topic, the effect is that they start to over estimate their competency in said topic.

If it were simply the idea that you don't know what you don't know, then you would expect to observe over confidence in people who know almost nothing about a topic. I believe D & K observed a sort of bell curve. (actual knowledge level on the x axis and confidence of knowledge on the y)

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#74

Post by castlecrasher2 »

smugglerFlynn wrote: post #8
castlecrasher2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, though I think it's reasonable to say the overuse is somewhat nice as it allows you to quickly identify who suffers from it and ignore them.

It seems your ability to practically apply the knowledge about Dunning-Kruger effect is suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect.

I suspect I'm spot on, and you're taking personal offence for that reason.

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#75

Post by LegibleCrimson »

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #68
LegibleCrimson wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failing to perform a piece is not a mistake, it's a failure. The word simply means "an attempt that did not succeed". Failed attempts are a natural part of progress and learning.

I recommend you read the following. https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/mistake-vs-failure

That article doesn't at all contradict my point.

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#76

Post by fsckboy »

jjeaff wrote: post #73
fsckboy wrote: post #13

I feel like some perspective needs to be applied to these popular terms. Imposter syndrome: there's a "sadness is not depression" thing going on here. There is an actual Imposter Syndrome that afflicts people who are highly qualified/credentialed, people who have qualified for entrance into elite programs, and put in the time and effort to progress to graduation; and yet for psychological reasons, they have great sel…

The Dunning Kruger studies were observations, but I believe I have seen the term "Dunning Kruger Effect" used pretty often to describe the possibly/likely explanation to why Dunning Kruger observed what they did. Which is that once someone learns just a little bit about a complex topic, the effect is that they start to over estimate their competency in said topic. If it were simply the idea that you don't know what y…

> If it were simply the idea that you don't know what you don't know

I wrote a simple phrase to refer to the "tip of an iceberg of associated ideas". To illustrate what I mean, you could rephrase your more detailed description of the gaussian to use "my" phrase to say "these people don't know anything, these people know more but don't know what they don't know" and these people know even more but do know what they don't know" etc.

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#77

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

LegibleCrimson wrote: post #75
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend you read the following. https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/mistake-vs-failure

That article doesn't at all contradict my point.

oh yeah, the article that explains that mistake and failure aren't the same thing doesn't contradict your point that mistake and failure are the same thing.

man, I'm so glad you cleared that up for us...

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