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My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

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Re: My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think you should re-read my comment. I'd also love to actually see the research you're talking about here. > I assure you I've thought about this. And explored it, researched it, tested it, prototyped it, interviewed people about it, built it, rebuilt it, and then did it all over again to improve it. Oh, sorry, I didn't realise I was talking to the world expert on button animations. So do users prefer quad…

> Actually I think you should re-read my comment. Ok, done. Still didn't see anything beyond assertions based on nothing but your own preference, and countering things I said without any support. > Oh, sorry, I didn't realise I was talking to the world expert on button animations. So do users prefer quadratic or exponential smoothing on their switches? Of course I didn't say I was the world expert in button animation…

> I'm far beyond the age where I feel compelled to pretend random developers' uninformed opinions on design are as useful as mine.

Yet your opinions are also uninformed. Or you've done precious little to convince people otherwise. Perhaps you should make arguments instead of just saying you have experience and it makes you correct. Does acting conceited often convince people of your perspectives? No? Then why do it? Surely telling me your thoughts would be much more convincing than simply asserting that you've had them.

> and countering things I said without any support

You are the one claiming to have numerical evidence to support your conclusions and failing to provide it. I think it is unreasonable to expect me to give that which you cannot.

Re: My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

#352
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even "feel" does matter to most users And I think most users would prefer software that does stuff instantly. Attaching little animations to everything is just silly and distracting. It only happens because someone had nothing better to do but still had to look busy. These things almost universally degrade the interface and I've yet to see the actual benefit of them, aside from the fact that they draw attention to…

> A good interface is one you do not notice A good animation is one you do not notice. Subtlety that succeeds in loading off its feedback payload in your brain without exposing the transmission mechanism to the conscious level of perception. Chances are you are only complaining about the subset of animations that failed to stay under that threshold. Yes, slow, elaborate animations are bad.

I agree. I don't have any issue with animations that I don't notice. So why bother with them? It seems like the best way to avoid me noticing something is not to put it there to begin with.

Re: My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

#353
post #185
post #24

You never get there with exponential smoothing. It takes infinite time to asymptotically approach the goal. Also, that page uses 100% of the CPU in Firefox.

For me the final few animations do some funky things... flickering, phasing out of bounds...

Can reproduce. Almost like it's intentional...

Re: My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most "non-technical" people use computers, especially desktops, in a professional setting. Navigating those UIs is part of their jobs and they will spent hours upon hours doing so. Yes, but they still reason about those interfaces totally differently. This isn't a quantitative difference in competence, it's a qualitative difference in approach. > Pretty animations may make a good first impressions but they get old…

> I assure you that you don't notice most of the animations you benefit from in your usage. I assure you, I do notice them. I am disabling them everywhere I can. I disable them in my Desktop Environment, I disable them on my Android smartphone. I am way more productive without them. Now, I don't hate animations per se. On the contrary as I dabble in game dev I find them crucial to "juice up" a game. They have their p…

> I assure you, I do notice them. I am disabling them everywhere I can. I disable them in my Desktop Environment, I disable them on my Android smartphone. I am way more productive without them. Now, I don't hate animations per se. On the contrary as I dabble in game dev I find them crucial to "juice up" a game. They have their place but that is not productivity software that people are forced to use daily. They are for play not work.

a) Ok so you disable mouseovers on all interface elements to indicate whether or not you're going to hit a click target, indicators of where windows are moving when you drag them and click indicator animations to show that you clicked on it, the minute amount of fadeout during the click animation on a number pad so you can enter values quickly while still seeing what keys you pressed, indicators for where something minimizes to or maximizes from, progress bars, blinking cursors, notifications... sure thing. If you think most UI animations are even remotely comparable to game UI animations, we're definitely not talking about the same animations

> Now I am willing to listen to actual academic studies about UI design and productivity but your acting like some corporate internal studies are actually legit science is silly. We all know this things are are more drive by corporate politics.

I'm not talking about internal corporate usability studies. Ideally, you should probably google something before you try explaining a field to a professional that works in that field.

> Many open source devs are users of their software. You are making a false dichotomy where developer are some special creatures with totally different needs. I like what I like. There is no such thing as an "average user". People have different needs. Making software for the lowest common denominator will create UI that will be miserable for everyone to use.

Firstly, judging whether or not software is usable by looking at the handful of people that already use it and built it is like polling people to see if the dinner they cooked themselves last night should win a cooking competition. If the goal of your software is only to serve the people that wrote it, then it doesn't matter. But the vast majority of open-source software is made for other people to use, too which is why they post it publicly on the internet. I've contributed probably 10k hours of coding time to FOSS projects, all of which had the specific goal of serving people outside of the small pool of maintainers.

Secondly, you accuse me of treating developers like they're special but then say that design which doesn't focus on developers' workflows is coding to the lowest common denominator. Gotcha.

Thirdly, the entire point of the discipline of interface design is breaking the idea that there is an average user. How do we accomplish that? By not letting people make unilateral decisions about design based on their assumptions and folk wisdom, consult existing data that influences how we proceed, and test our assumptions on the people who actually use the software. If you're saying that developers unilaterally making design decisions are more open to different usage styles than a designer that is specifically looking at people's usage, I'm not really sure how to address that.

Re: My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually I think you should re-read my comment. Ok, done. Still didn't see anything beyond assertions based on nothing but your own preference, and countering things I said without any support. > Oh, sorry, I didn't realise I was talking to the world expert on button animations. So do users prefer quadratic or exponential smoothing on their switches? Of course I didn't say I was the world expert in button animation…

> I'm far beyond the age where I feel compelled to pretend random developers' uninformed opinions on design are as useful as mine. Yet your opinions are also uninformed. Or you've done precious little to convince people otherwise. Perhaps you should make arguments instead of just saying you have experience and it makes you correct. Does acting conceited often convince people of your perspectives? No? Then why do it?…

> You are the one claiming to have numerical evidence to support your conclusions and failing to provide it. I think it is unreasonable to expect me to give that which you cannot.

That appropriately applied animations are a valuable part of interface usability is not controversial. A four second google search will confirm that and I'm not going to do that for you just because you refuse to look. Anyone dismissing the idea out-of-hand based on their own preferences and assumptions has the burden of proof.

> Yet your opinions are also uninformed. Or you've done precious little to convince people otherwise. Perhaps you should make arguments instead of just saying you have experience and it makes you correct. Does acting conceited often convince people of your perspectives? No? Then why do it? Surely telling me your thoughts would be much more convincing than simply asserting that you've had them.

Yes. How conceited of me to not scramble to go grab citations for a bunch of people in a completely different field asserting that they know more about design than designers. Surely if you stumbled upon a bunch of designers making sweeping, arrogant, unsupported declarations about software development and the incompetence of developers, you'd trip over yourself to gather any evidence they demanded to prove your point when you corrected them on their foundational misgivings. Surely you wouldn't just tell them to go google it for themselves.

"Am I out of touch with the current state of design? No: it's the designers who are wrong."

Re: My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm far beyond the age where I feel compelled to pretend random developers' uninformed opinions on design are as useful as mine. Yet your opinions are also uninformed. Or you've done precious little to convince people otherwise. Perhaps you should make arguments instead of just saying you have experience and it makes you correct. Does acting conceited often convince people of your perspectives? No? Then why do it?…

> You are the one claiming to have numerical evidence to support your conclusions and failing to provide it. I think it is unreasonable to expect me to give that which you cannot. That appropriately applied animations are a valuable part of interface usability is not controversial. A four second google search will confirm that and I'm not going to do that for you just because you refuse to look. Anyone dismissing the…

> appropriately applied animations

Appropriately applied anything is good. I am disputing whether this is an appropriate application.

> How conceited of me to not scramble to go grab citations

This what not conceited. There is nothing wrong with not having the numbers for something, you should just try to avoid claiming you do if you can't actually find any. The conceited bit was your general attitude. Writing many lines of text about how much experience you have, how everyone else is stupid and has worthless opinions, etc.

> Surely if you stumbled upon a bunch of designers making sweeping, arrogant, unsupported declarations about software development and the incompetence of developers

I would likely agree with them. Most software is quite bad, and most of it isn't designed much better. When I say a lot of designers are wasting time on this stuff, I base this on developers doing the same thing. If the people making these claims were incorrect about something, I would simply explain why that is rather than saying "I have a bunch of experience that you don't have and there are some studies that prove your silly little feelings wrong. Your opinions are worthless compared to mine." The reason I wouldn't say this is because it's conceited and it doesn't convince anyone of anything.

> "Am I out of touch with the current state of design? No: it's the designers who are wrong."

I am more concerned with what users think than I am with the current trends in design. Anyone can be a designer, that doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.

Re: My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

#357
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shadow is around flat piece of paper of zero height, levitating off the background, casting shadow 360 degrees all around. No physical lighting set up could produce this effect.

Isn't that the effect you get when you have a large diffuse light source directly above?

If you have a diffuse light source, let's say 8dp, directly above the component and the component is also 8dp above the background, then it'll look right for one component.

To account for the lack of parallex effect in the shadow when there are multiple components, you will then need a telephoto lens zoomed through the light source from a huge distance. I think we'll need a ring light.

Re: My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

#358
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't serve the same purpose. A toggle switch has an immediate result, such as switching the website between light mode and dark mode. A checkbox is part of a form, and indicates a boolean choice that will only be taken into account once you submit the form.

How do you enter text then? Do you re-implement the text box because input text is part of a form? Check boxes work just fine without a form btw: https://stackoverflow.com/a/50012963

I'm not saying you CANNOT use a checkbox outside of a form. I'm saying they gradually became different UX widgets that serve different purposes.

You can use pretty much any widget to store a boolean state. A select? It works. Radio buttons? Works. Checkbox? Of course. Typing "1" or "0" in a text input limited to integers between 0 and 1 inclusive? Why not. But semantics matter, and so does the principle of least surprise. Nowadays users expect an immediate result when toggling a toggle button. Not as much when they toggle a checkbox.

Re: My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

#359
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think most people would trade opacity and fancy buttons for MS Teams to be able to load in under a minute. It's a paradox. If you don't make it look fancy, smooth, and appealing, you lose out to those that do. Even if you have a better product, that doesn't mean you can sell it on merits of being more technically efficient. Especially to more casual consumer or to business heads to make the purchases. besides, the…

We don't use Teams because it is fancy, or smooth or appealing. We use Teams because the company that pays our salary tells us to use Teams. End of story. And I would definitely trade opacity and fancy buttons for a client that loads and runs fast.

>Especially to more casual consumer or to business heads to make the purchases.

I covered that yes. Your company isn't made of people who will objectively measure the best product for the employees.

Re: My favourite animation trick: exponential smoothing (2023)

#360

This is just proportional control. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_control

Yep. It is also known as exponential smoothing in other contexts.

I wish the author had linked to the wikis for either of those things up front so people who had heard of it already (and know why you probably don't want to use it for your UI) could move on.

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