Self-control signals and affords power • Hacker News Board

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#31

Post by xeckr » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 5:13 PM UTC

>In one experiment, working adults imagined a scenario where a colleague with the goal of being fit either ate a large dessert or abstained from dessert altogether. Researchers found that the colleague was seen as being better suited for high-power roles when they abstained from indulging, an indication of self-control.

The result of the study seems obvious even if the design is a bit primitive.

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#32

Post by nebula8804 » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 5:15 PM UTC

notnaut wrote: post #16

largbae wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk appears to be a counter-example...

Over promising is better when you’re interested in money/power and have plenty of your own to start with, rather than any underlying pointless nonsense like working toward an achievable goal or trying to be a decent human.

We now know based on his numerous biographies and documentaries made about him that he overpromised because else his companies would not get the badly needed funds/support/customers. Is this fraud? Probably but he got away with it because he delivered enough tangible results to get people to back off. Otherwise he'd probably be in jail now.

Why does he still overpromise when he does not need to? Well the latest biography sorta explained it: He can't help himself, he needs the thrill of an ever more difficult problem to solve. (ie. he's psycho)

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#33

Post by duckman1 » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 5:16 PM UTC

largbae wrote: post #13

gexla wrote: post #9

"Some set an ambitious goal of reading 200 pages each week, while others set a more moderate goal of reading 50 pages per week. All of these individuals read the same amount – 100 pages – but those who didn’t meet their goal were seen as less powerful by study participants." Under-promise, over-deliver.

Elon Musk appears to be a counter-example...

[dead]

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#34

Post by mjburgess » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 5:17 PM UTC

richardgreeko27 wrote: post #28

c4wrd wrote: post #10

This is something I've noticed in myself and I'm glad there's research to back this, although this is an open secret to those who do master self-control. I've spent the last three to four years working on self-control and discipline after I hit rock bottom in my life and realized I had no self-agency. For me, having greater self-control led me to ensure I can focus on providing value where it matters in my life, and…

> ...making excuses when you read this article for why the power hierarchy is against you, or that there is bias in the results > ...this post triggered you Definitely the language choices of an unbiased perspective from someone who doesn't have an axe to grind

These are the excuses culture makes available. I take the commenter just to be reporting them.

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#35

Post by c4wrd » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 5:26 PM UTC

richardgreeko27 wrote: post #28

c4wrd wrote: post #10

This is something I've noticed in myself and I'm glad there's research to back this, although this is an open secret to those who do master self-control. I've spent the last three to four years working on self-control and discipline after I hit rock bottom in my life and realized I had no self-agency. For me, having greater self-control led me to ensure I can focus on providing value where it matters in my life, and…

> ...making excuses when you read this article for why the power hierarchy is against you, or that there is bias in the results > ...this post triggered you Definitely the language choices of an unbiased perspective from someone who doesn't have an axe to grind

You're right. I never said it was an unbiased perspective, so let me make it clear. The post was intended to help those who were like me. When I wrote the post, I wrote it as if I was speaking to my past self in a style that would have motivated my younger self; nothing more, nothing less.

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#36

Post by throwway120385 » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 5:27 PM UTC

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #3

Wonder if companies setting "Stretch" goals, and having people fail, is actually a form of control. Get results, but also keeps employees down. People may be less inclined to ask for raise if they miss goals, even if the results were 'good'.

It's also a tool for HR to say they have a process that they follow but then still allow all of the decisions about pay increases and performance to be entirely subjective. You miss your stretch goals, and so depending on how your manager feels at the time that's either totally acceptable and you're doing a great job, or if they need justification to shaft you then it's totally unacceptable and you didn't do the work well enough to deserve that. Same situation but totally different outcome.

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#37

Post by pilgrim0 » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 5:30 PM UTC

IMO simply striving to gain power or money is easier than to achieve greatness and mastery, in general. Mainly because one can lie their way into power and money, countless examples of that both at a local level and global level. Now, mastery requires the opposite of lying and pursuing easy to achieve goals. It’s the hardest path because frustration is constant, and it requires one to keep stretching the limits of their own capabilities, and it never gets easier. Self control in that scenario is not necessarily about getting things “done”, but rather to not give up, and keep trying restlessly. The lack of nuance in the summary of that paper makes me think it’s not worth reading it. For me, I have greater admiration and respect for someone who has failed majestically at being great, than for someone who deals purely with median or below median expectations. The former will have amazing stories to tell, the latter usually don’t. The summary given by this blog, and likely the paper, too, is heavily tainted with the idea of “being for others”, rather than the idea of “being for self”. Again, being for others is super easy because it’s simply a matter of controlling the information you give, people do that all the time in social media. This doesn’t work for “being for self” because one can’t fool oneself indefinitely. Like the summary hints at, striving for greatness indeed involves fulfilling many achievements in the process of pursuing the greater achievement. This usually doesn’t count for observers, though, because the crowd has no taste or time for the story, but only for conclusions. Again illustrating how “being for self” is harder, as you’re set to be perceived as less than what you’re really trying to become. A functional remedy for that is simply to not be so public about your desires, which has the upside of protecting you from all sorts of exploitation.

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#38

Post by _z7iw » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 5:32 PM UTC

c4wrd wrote: post #10

This is something I've noticed in myself and I'm glad there's research to back this, although this is an open secret to those who do master self-control. I've spent the last three to four years working on self-control and discipline after I hit rock bottom in my life and realized I had no self-agency. For me, having greater self-control led me to ensure I can focus on providing value where it matters in my life, and…

> you will start to realize that you can't think of a reason why you made an excuse

this may not always be true by the way. such constant observation of yourself, constantly asking yourself what such and such a thing means or came from - may eventually lead you to notice the cognitive jump you take - the experience you had all those years ago plus the new thought pattern you started to let yourself believe - which became compressed and hidden by the familiarity and comfort of having no problems due to the resulting dissociation. Before you let yourself believe there was no reason, consider deferring belief permanently until you remember what impression you had which caused 'what is'. Far along that path lies deep self-knowledge and therefore deep knowledge of the world. Most people aren't as interested in seeing the truth as they believe so they give up when they feel more comfortable. It's explained, then, that as a result of not being awakened to what is, their karma inside themselves can still conquer their destiny [1]. Whereas someone who actually respects the truth is going to think more seriously about controlling their karma, at the very least so as not to damage the truth more.

1. What is Destiny?- [link redacted]

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#39

Post by boringuser2 » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 5:33 PM UTC

A controversial take from this is that, aside from the health benefits, you will also accrue personal and professional benefits from not being fat.

I remember interviewing when I was chubbier post-COVID thinking that the only evidence the interviewer has of my self-control and drive is that I have none. Best case scenario, you are interviewing a temporarily embarrassed skinny person.

Noble prize winner James Watson, famous bluntly tell it like it is-er, said he didn't hire fat people for this reason.

(This has since been rectified by reinstating strength training and dietary controls, which I recommend.)

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#40

Post by astura » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 5:33 PM UTC

c4wrd wrote: post #10

This is something I've noticed in myself and I'm glad there's research to back this, although this is an open secret to those who do master self-control. I've spent the last three to four years working on self-control and discipline after I hit rock bottom in my life and realized I had no self-agency. For me, having greater self-control led me to ensure I can focus on providing value where it matters in my life, and…

>when you have greater self-control you are less prone to get "bullied" by other managers into doing work for them and you can stand up more for your team

Umm... You are confusing self control with confidence and self esteem. They aren't the same thing. Though I can see how becoming more disciplined can lead to more confidence and self esteem.