Self-control signals and affords power • Hacker News Board

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#11

Post by me_me_me » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 3:57 PM UTC

disqard wrote: post #4

"Across all experiments, individuals with high self-control were seen as more powerful, and as better suited for powerful roles, than individuals with low self-control." Part of me sees this research as "doing everything by the book" and consequently failing to capture important insights. For instance, every economic model of humans assumes that we're "rational agents", yet we know that people with poor impulse contr…

I think you are missing the point. Self control is a source of persistence to get to goal. If you are impulsive buyer of random crap, you will not save money for a house.

If you give up easily or get distracted accomplishing difficult tasks will be impossible.

We all know those people and at least to me they always feel like bit of looser who openly jeopardise their own future.

Trumps of this world only impress naive people of this world, people who buy how to make $1m in a year books.

Trump openly employs wrestling narrative building to win popularity. It doesn't get any basic than that (i am generalising avg trump voter of course, but a man who never worked a day of hard work in his life - is a hero of blue collar, cheated on every single of his 5 wives - christian hero and maybe eveb second coming, all his businesses went bust - a true successful businessmen)

Would you trust trump to run your company? or oversee anything of value?

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#12

Post by katmannthree » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 4:00 PM UTC

KuriousCat wrote: post #6

disqard wrote: post #4

"Across all experiments, individuals with high self-control were seen as more powerful, and as better suited for powerful roles, than individuals with low self-control." Part of me sees this research as "doing everything by the book" and consequently failing to capture important insights. For instance, every economic model of humans assumes that we're "rational agents", yet we know that people with poor impulse contr…

I think people like ElMo and Trump do have a lot of self control. In addition to getting what they want they are also masters of influence. It is also not poor impulse control if they are good enough to muster enough resources to afford their impulses in the first place.

How is this different from “it’s not poor impulse control if you’re a _functional_ alcoholic who can muster enough resources to afford a handle every morning”?

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#13

Post by largbae » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 4:07 PM UTC

gexla wrote: post #9

"Some set an ambitious goal of reading 200 pages each week, while others set a more moderate goal of reading 50 pages per week. All of these individuals read the same amount – 100 pages – but those who didn’t meet their goal were seen as less powerful by study participants." Under-promise, over-deliver.

Elon Musk appears to be a counter-example...

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#14

Post by KuriousCat » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 4:09 PM UTC

katmannthree wrote: post #12

KuriousCat wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people like ElMo and Trump do have a lot of self control. In addition to getting what they want they are also masters of influence. It is also not poor impulse control if they are good enough to muster enough resources to afford their impulses in the first place.

How is this different from “it’s not poor impulse control if you’re a _functional_ alcoholic who can muster enough resources to afford a handle every morning”?

It depends on the motive, if the person is highly motivated to indulge in hedonistic pleasure and alcohol gives him that, well he is achieving his objective. Where as person wants to experience some love/friendship and can't get it and he is using alcohol as a mask you know where to put him.

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#15

Post by coop_solution » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 4:13 PM UTC

c4wrd wrote: post #10

This is something I've noticed in myself and I'm glad there's research to back this, although this is an open secret to those who do master self-control. I've spent the last three to four years working on self-control and discipline after I hit rock bottom in my life and realized I had no self-agency. For me, having greater self-control led me to ensure I can focus on providing value where it matters in my life, and…

Is there any way to disagree with this comment without being disregarded as resentful?

Good work is the key to good fortune / Winners take that praise / Losers seldom take that blame

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#16

Post by notnaut » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 4:21 PM UTC

largbae wrote: post #13

gexla wrote: post #9

"Some set an ambitious goal of reading 200 pages each week, while others set a more moderate goal of reading 50 pages per week. All of these individuals read the same amount – 100 pages – but those who didn’t meet their goal were seen as less powerful by study participants." Under-promise, over-deliver.

Elon Musk appears to be a counter-example...

Over promising is better when you’re interested in money/power and have plenty of your own to start with, rather than any underlying pointless nonsense like working toward an achievable goal or trying to be a decent human.

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#17

Post by 15457345234 » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 4:22 PM UTC

coop_solution wrote: post #15

c4wrd wrote: post #10

This is something I've noticed in myself and I'm glad there's research to back this, although this is an open secret to those who do master self-control. I've spent the last three to four years working on self-control and discipline after I hit rock bottom in my life and realized I had no self-agency. For me, having greater self-control led me to ensure I can focus on providing value where it matters in my life, and…

Is there any way to disagree with this comment without being disregarded as resentful? Good work is the key to good fortune / Winners take that praise / Losers seldom take that blame

Disagree? It's ad copy promoting a self-help book.

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#18

Post by glitchc » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 4:23 PM UTC

annoyingnoob wrote: post #8

disqard wrote: post #4

"Across all experiments, individuals with high self-control were seen as more powerful, and as better suited for powerful roles, than individuals with low self-control." Part of me sees this research as "doing everything by the book" and consequently failing to capture important insights. For instance, every economic model of humans assumes that we're "rational agents", yet we know that people with poor impulse contr…

Ambition, persistence, and confidence play a role too. Some people do not take No for an answer and keep trying.

Not to mention luck.

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#19

Post by abeppu » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 4:26 PM UTC

All of this is in a context where it's assumed that participants _know_ the goals of the person under consideration, can straight-forwardly evaluate whether actions are in line with those, and where the _participant's_ goals are framed to not be a part of the discussion.

In real life, how often are these true for power that matters?

- as an IC, I generally don't have the information an exec has, and cannot easily judge which choices are aligned with stated goals

- as a voter, I'm regularly unsure which goals that a politician says publicly are their real goals

- and for any situation where I'm close enough to judge the actual suitability of actions, and the intents of the participants, I probably have enough of a stake that my view of who should be in control is swayed by what outcome I want

Re: Self-control signals and affords power

#20

Post by quickthrower2 » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 4:27 PM UTC

annoyingnoob wrote: post #7

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #3

Wonder if companies setting "Stretch" goals, and having people fail, is actually a form of control. Get results, but also keeps employees down. People may be less inclined to ask for raise if they miss goals, even if the results were 'good'.

My mother was a Manager at an insurance company for a very long time. She still firmly believes that one cannot get a 5 out 5 on a review because no one is perfect. Business likes to set unobtainable goals like that. In my experience, that kind of corporate behavior drives high performers away. High performers know what they have done and if you refuse to acknowledge it over time they leave.

The folly is the same as the rock star amplifier that “goes to 11” or how gig economy reviews are 5 star = acceptable or better, anything else means dreadful.’It is just a linear transform people have to do in their heads.