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iPhone owners can leave EU for 30 days before they lose third-party app stores

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Re: iPhone owners can leave EU for 30 days before they lose third-party app stores

#161

Post by tmottabr »

drewthestu wrote: post #41
samatman wrote: post #4

> Whether or not that will be something the European Commission takes issue with, remains to be seen. After all, an EU citizen is an EU citizen even after they leave the EU. I fail to see how this is in any way relevant. Cannabis is legal in Canada, and Canadians remain Canadian citizens abroad. If they're caught with cannabis in a country where it's illegal, they will be prosecuted for breaking the law. Laws don't f…

I think you have it a bit turned around. If I have a right under my country's laws based on my citizenship, my right doesn't cease to exist because I leave the country. For example, I continue to have 5th Amendment rights outside of the United States. Reid v. Covert, 354 U.S. 1 (1957). I haven't read the decision that requires Apple to open up its devices to third party stores, but if that decision is somehow premise…

that decision is about military tribunals that will judge acts of us citizens committed at other territories but under US law.

If you are in another country and is being prosecuted under that country laws the 5th amendment not only not apply but it (or a similar law) might not even exist.

Re: iPhone owners can leave EU for 30 days before they lose third-party app stores

#162

Post by tmottabr »

WWLink wrote: post #12
samatman wrote: post #4

> Whether or not that will be something the European Commission takes issue with, remains to be seen. After all, an EU citizen is an EU citizen even after they leave the EU. I fail to see how this is in any way relevant. Cannabis is legal in Canada, and Canadians remain Canadian citizens abroad. If they're caught with cannabis in a country where it's illegal, they will be prosecuted for breaking the law. Laws don't f…

This has nothing to do with laws. This has everything to do with Apple choosing how you will use the software on your device. And they're straight up insisting that if you don't live within a geographical area, the functionality of your device will change at their whim. Honestly. Fuck them.

this is totally about the law.. third-party stores only exist in EU because there is a law that require then to exist.

And Apple devices already behave differently based on location.

Apple watches O2 and Heart functionalities are famously limited by the watch location at the time they are enabled, US being one place where O2 is not available at the moment even while you can have it in many other countries.

Re: iPhone owners can leave EU for 30 days before they lose third-party app stores

#163

Post by Brian_K_White »

gruez wrote: post #108
klabb3 wrote: post #57

IIUC this is a deliberate act of aggression by Apple - which is important to note. Apple already has regional accounts, so the infrastructure for this is in place already, for preexisting reasons. My Apple ID is still within US after months of being in the EU. They have not “kicked me out” yet. There’s no other way than to interpret this, and the preceding actions by Apple, as a temper tantrum of malicious compliance…

>[...]this is a deliberate act of aggression by Apple [...] >There’s no other way than to interpret this, and the preceding actions by Apple, as a temper tantrum of malicious compliance [...] While it's pretty clear that most people here would have liked it if Apple rolled out third party app stores to everyone and were hoping that EU regulations would extend to non-EU users (like with USB-C charging port standard),…

They included an example fact that exposes how the current actions are different from equivalent long preexisting behavior, and so that difference does require an explanation.

Re: iPhone owners can leave EU for 30 days before they lose third-party app stores

#164

Post by Brian_K_White »

tmottabr wrote: post #155
em-bee wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i travel a lot. and that means, i sometimes leave my home for months at a time. more than 30 days. when roaming with a chinese sim card, all my traffic keeps going through china, regardless how long i leave the country. so for practical purposes, it is like i never left the country. but if i use an EU sim, suddenly after 30 days i am no longer considered to be part of the EU? as an EU citizen? how does that make any…

When using a EU sim your traffic will still go trough the EU server. But the EU laws stop applying at the border. The third-party stores are there because of a EU law that does not apply on any other country. If they wanted they could make the store stop working the minute you step out of the EU and they would still be following the law.

What belies this is the fact that they do this differently for the specific intersection of the EU and the app store than they do for any of the many other long standing geofenced functions.

Re: iPhone owners can leave EU for 30 days before they lose third-party app stores

#165

Post by Brian_K_White »

turquoisevar wrote: post #114
gruez wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>[...]this is a deliberate act of aggression by Apple [...] >There’s no other way than to interpret this, and the preceding actions by Apple, as a temper tantrum of malicious compliance [...] While it's pretty clear that most people here would have liked it if Apple rolled out third party app stores to everyone and were hoping that EU regulations would extend to non-EU users (like with USB-C charging port standard),…

Exactly. They’re following the DMA to a T and because people don’t like that fact, all kinds of loaded language is used to describe the mere act of complying with a law. They might as well call Apple petty for not throwing in an iPhone with the purchase of a MacBook.

"This just in: Legal scholar points out that they are not technically touching the cookie jar."

It's trivial to invalidate this non-argument and expose intent, or rather remove the cloak of denyability, by simply witnessing several different inconsistencies.

Not merely that such geofenced functions are nothing new, and so there is already a practically infinite body of evidense of established behavior around that, and somehow only this one thing is handled differently, but also other things like someone else pointed out, are Apple still accepting their EU payment method? Applying EU taxes on those transactions? Conforming to EU laws in other ways relating to that customer? In all other ways Apple are declaring that they recognize the user as an EU citizen.

Re: iPhone owners can leave EU for 30 days before they lose third-party app stores

#166

Post by op00to »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #158
op00to wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is incorrect.

So British laws apply in Iranian embassy in London? No they don't

Proof?

The embassy operates within the UK and must respect British laws, but the UK authorities have limited rights to enter the embassy premises or exert jurisdiction over those premises without permission from the embassy's country (Iran, in this case). For criminal matters or serious breaches of law, the host country and the embassy's country typically engage in diplomatic discussions to resolve the issue.

Re: iPhone owners can leave EU for 30 days before they lose third-party app stores

#168

Post by rchaud »

paulddraper wrote: post #98
nbvkappowqpeop wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are you talking about?

Believe it or not, a lot of people like FAANG products and use them daily. Imagine taking away your toddler's favorite toy. Forever.

You are joking if you think that Facebook being down would cause protests.

Re: iPhone owners can leave EU for 30 days before they lose third-party app stores

#169

Post by paulpan »

klabb3 wrote: post #57

IIUC this is a deliberate act of aggression by Apple - which is important to note. Apple already has regional accounts, so the infrastructure for this is in place already, for preexisting reasons. My Apple ID is still within US after months of being in the EU. They have not “kicked me out” yet. There’s no other way than to interpret this, and the preceding actions by Apple, as a temper tantrum of malicious compliance…

It's crystal clear that Apple is trying to protect its Services revenue, which just grew 11% and hit a new record last quarter at $23.1B (https://www.statista.com/statistics/250918/apples-revenue-fr...). Services is becoming its lone growth segment.

Otherwise why go through the additional overhead and headache of implementing region-specific rules? iOS is becoming branched into 3 forks: EU, China, and rest of the world.

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