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America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

economist.com

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Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#31

Post by 7thaccount »

Tier3r wrote: post #3
7thaccount wrote: post #2

I have a super liberal (politically, not in the classical sense) sister as a professor at a small school (non Ivy League). She talks all the time about the hyper bloated administration that literally does nothing except make things less efficient and collect a paycheck. It would seem that whether you're on the political left OR right (or somewhere in the middle), that we can all agree that there is a ton of bloat in…

Has any university manage to buck this trend?

They sometimes fire a lot of administrators towards the end when on life support, but that's only after cutting back all the programs to where the university is pretty much dead anyway.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#32

Post by 7thaccount »

naasking wrote: post #8
7thaccount wrote: post #2

I have a super liberal (politically, not in the classical sense) sister as a professor at a small school (non Ivy League). She talks all the time about the hyper bloated administration that literally does nothing except make things less efficient and collect a paycheck. It would seem that whether you're on the political left OR right (or somewhere in the middle), that we can all agree that there is a ton of bloat in…

I was under the impression that sports were always a huge deal, are you saying that's increased even more? The growth of administrative roles has been crazy, and behind the majority of the increased costs from what I've seen.

Sports are MUCH bigger now. Apparently some small private schools make nearly all their money from kids that are obsessed with sports, but too terrible to get a scholarship at a real school. So they have basketball teams with 100 players and kids pay through the nose to continue being part of a team even though they never even play. You can't make this stuff up.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#33

Post by awesomeMilou »

randomdata wrote: post #10
Tier3r wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has any university manage to buck this trend?

Where would the market fit be for a university to buck the trend? Those who want to fund research will hire the researchers themselves in order to retain ownership and control. Those who want to learn for the sake of learning turn to the internet. There is no money to be made here. The money is in selling sports and status. The students want to be milked as a care-free willingness to be milked is what establishes the…

> The students want to be milked as a care-free willingness to be milked is what establishes the status.

You're misrepresenting why people attend university. Academia is first and foremost a network and a means to gatekeeping. Not all of us are gifted. And not all upper class jobs can be filled by gifted people. Some of us just want a way to enter a class that they would otherwise have no way of entering.

At least it's like this in my part of the world, then again most of my countries universities aren't for profit.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#34

Post by awesomeMilou »

bell-cot wrote: post #21
tech_ken wrote: post #13

People talk a lot about the bloat at universities, but I think that they don’t often think about that bloat as being the rational response to a system that is increasingly pushing them to (a) provide collegiate credentialling to basically the entire US workforce and (b) operate the infrastructure of a small village. Yes administrative bloat is real, yes universities are opaque morasses of money and bureaucracy. They…

> ...also charged with the care of tens of thousands of young people; keeping them fed, providing medical services, transit, housing, therapy... This is an all-too-valid point, especially for "young people" who really are not ready to be independent adults. If Chris graduates from high school, gets a 3/4-time job working at Pete's Pizza Parlor, rents a little apartment to live in, and starts taking old-fashioned corr…

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is this a US specific problem? Most universities where I live provide free mental health service's through the government, though it's a more limited than real therapy.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#35

Post by freitzkriesler2 »

tech_ken wrote: post #30
freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those administrators and presidents are not top tier business executives but are part of an insestuous community of higher education professionals whose only credentis are that they managed other departments within a college. Maybe if they came from industry their skills can be argued but the majority of those administrators don't have any experience outside of academia.

> Maybe if they came from industry their skills can be argued but the majority of those administrators don't have any experience outside of academia. So you're annoyed that the highly paid professionals have lots of experience in doing the thing they are paid to do? I suppose if one starts from the premise that all higher ed admin are incompetent by nature, or that managing a unit within a university requires no skil…

That's the point, these institutions have been bloated from years of excessively raised tuition costs and those over paid professionals don't know what to do.

Would those same over paid administrators manage to right their ships if the fat disappeared?

This happened at my alma mater which is a private college in New York during the pandemic. They had a massive hole in revenue and their over paid president was essentially kicked out. The diversity hire they brought in struggled just as much and the school is still hemorrhaging money. The presidents salary was $350k for BFE new York.

We're a few years from the pandemic and now they're dealing with reduced enrollment thanks to excessive tuition costs and declining alumni donations.

Harvard and other big institutions have intertia and status to float by. A lot of these other schools? Not so much.

Trim the fat and higher Ed corrects itself by flushing the grifters out .

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#36

Post by el_don_almighty »

awesomeMilou wrote: post #34
bell-cot wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...also charged with the care of tens of thousands of young people; keeping them fed, providing medical services, transit, housing, therapy... This is an all-too-valid point, especially for "young people" who really are not ready to be independent adults. If Chris graduates from high school, gets a 3/4-time job working at Pete's Pizza Parlor, rents a little apartment to live in, and starts taking old-fashioned corr…

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is this a US specific problem? Most universities where I live provide free mental health service's through the government, though it's a more limited than real therapy.

hmmm.... u.s. government and 'mental health' you say?

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#37

Post by j7ake »

linhns wrote: post #18
j7ake wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research institutes like Rockefeller, Allen Institute, Scripps.

I wouldn’t count those as universities.

They are places of scholarship and they grant degrees. What is missing from them that makes them not universities?

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#38

Post by naasking »

tech_ken wrote: post #29
naasking wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are also charged with the care of tens of thousands of young people; keeping them fed, providing medical services, transit, housing, therapy, IT support Yes. The point is they shouldn't be.

Ok sure I'm on board with it. Now convince the millions of students who vote with their wallets to stop attending these all-inclusive campuses.

If someone offered tuition at half the cost without those services, I bet plenty would vote for that with their wallets. Unfortunately, bureaucrats don't typically have that kind of courage.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#40

Post by tech_ken »

naasking wrote: post #38
tech_ken wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok sure I'm on board with it. Now convince the millions of students who vote with their wallets to stop attending these all-inclusive campuses.

If someone offered tuition at half the cost without those services, I bet plenty would vote for that with their wallets. Unfortunately, bureaucrats don't typically have that kind of courage.

Are you just not familiar with the concept of a community college or what? I’m only lightly familiar with higher ed and even at this distance the problem is clearly not that nobody’s been “daring” enough to try and float a slimmed down higher education offering.
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