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Responding to Beggars

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Re: Responding to Beggars

#61

Post by Muzza »

hej wrote: post #58
Muzza wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 100% confident that deporting all foreign beggars in Sweden will solve the problem of foreign beggars in Sweden. I don't really care if this doesn't get to the "bottom of the problem" or whatever. I (or the Swedish people in general) simply cannot be held responsible for the suffering of the entire fucking world. Your links don't make any sense. The DDR used slave labor? Ingvar Kamprad uses various tax avoidance…

You (and I) are responsible if you are enjoying your privileges while – through no fault of their own - others suffer. Sweden and the west got rich through luck and exploitation. You are privileged. You are lucky. Recognize that and act on it.

I am certainly not responsible in any way for (for instance) Romania's poverty. There was this guy called Ceaușescu; he had a little bit to do with it.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#62

Post by willvarfar »

Muzza wrote: post #53
Create wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exporting organised crime will not solve your problems. Especially regarding the EU. http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,15932840,00.html http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,15921927,00.html http://www.thelocal.de/national/20120503-42321.html http://www.thelocal.se/31650/20110126/ http://www.economist.com/node/6919139 ...etc.

I am 100% confident that deporting all foreign beggars in Sweden will solve the problem of foreign beggars in Sweden. I don't really care if this doesn't get to the "bottom of the problem" or whatever. I (or the Swedish people in general) simply cannot be held responsible for the suffering of the entire fucking world. Your links don't make any sense. The DDR used slave labor? Ingvar Kamprad uses various tax avoidance…

so where do you stand on Brevik, both motive and method?

Re: Responding to Beggars

#63

Post by shawndumas »

lisper wrote: post #38

My experience trying to get a homeless person off the street: http://graceofgodmovie.com/ Available on iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/but-for-the-grace-of-god/id... If you watch it and like it please write a review.

Been there done that. I have actually helped a man get off of alcohol and street, securing him a job and a place to live; only to have him go back to the streets: Twice.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#64

Post by Create »

Muzza wrote: post #59
Create wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 Free movement of capital 4 Free movement of services 5 Free movement of people 5.1 Free movement of workers 5.2 Free movement for the non-economically active 5.3 The Schengen Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms_%28European_Unio... I also invite you to read the labels of ie. the plying wooden chairs and crude mugs from which all those world-mesmerising profits arise.

What is your point? Do you think I'm somehow ignorant of what the EU means? I know about the free movement of people - I reject it since it has negative consequences for me! For some reason you are unwilling to come right out and simply say what you think about IKEA, thus leaving me to read your mind. Presumably your argument goes something like this: "Ingvar Kamprad is Swedish, Ingvar Kamprad used forced labor in th…

Your presumption is wrong. I gave examples of free movements of products, services and capital. If you are ready to accept these freedoms, you should also accept the other items packaged in this very same deal: the free movement of people.

The Swiss also like to cherry pick the good stuff from the Europe, just like everybody. Not taking responsibility of the economic externalities, as the euphemism goes, is not sustainable. Economically speaking of the West, the short-term advantages of this short-sightedness are over.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#65

Post by Muzza »

willvarfar wrote: post #62
Muzza wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 100% confident that deporting all foreign beggars in Sweden will solve the problem of foreign beggars in Sweden. I don't really care if this doesn't get to the "bottom of the problem" or whatever. I (or the Swedish people in general) simply cannot be held responsible for the suffering of the entire fucking world. Your links don't make any sense. The DDR used slave labor? Ingvar Kamprad uses various tax avoidance…

so where do you stand on Brevik, both motive and method?

The answer is mu ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_%28negative%29 ). There is no link between mass murder and the deportation of criminals; my stance on Breivik is irrelevant.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#66

Post by mpusr »

Muzza wrote: post #61
hej wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You (and I) are responsible if you are enjoying your privileges while – through no fault of their own - others suffer. Sweden and the west got rich through luck and exploitation. You are privileged. You are lucky. Recognize that and act on it.

I am certainly not responsible in any way for (for instance) Romania's poverty. There was this guy called Ceaușescu; he had a little bit to do with it.

that may be so, but the actual beggars are not at fault, and this is important. simply because someone was not born within the borders of your country does not make them any less human. This is the point. A swedish life is worth no more or less than a romanian one. Your nationalist attitude is baseless.

You happen to be born in sweden, they happen to be born in romania. If the tables were turned I'm sure you wouldn't think too highly of people with your opinion.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#67

Post by martincmartin »

robocat wrote: post #37
ido wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually enjoy seeing tourists get taken advantage of, and actively encourage it with my own behaviour. Why?

Hard to explain - however I don't mean in a Schadenfreude way... E.g. vendor selling something for 10x what a local would pay. I don't haggle much and admire chutzpah. If someone steals my wallet because that is the only income they can get, I won't like it (but I am not about to go hungry, get rickets or fail to get healthcare). Obviously hard to delineate what is 'bad', or what are downstream effects.

Perhaps you mean that they sell it for a higher price to people who have more money, and a lower price to people who have less?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination

Re: Responding to Beggars

#68

Post by willvarfar »

Muzza wrote: post #65
willvarfar wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so where do you stand on Brevik, both motive and method?

The answer is mu ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_%28negative%29 ). There is no link between mass murder and the deportation of criminals; my stance on Breivik is irrelevant.

motive vs method.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#69

Post by gioele »

Muzza wrote: post #47
wilfra wrote: post #29

In Thailand this situation is quite terrible. The Mafia collects people with missing limbs and other disfigurations, basically the people who will elicit the greatest sympathy, and forces them to sit on the same corners begging day after day, month after month and year after year - and turn all of the money they collect over to them. If they steal any, they die. In return they are provided with the bare minimum subsi…

The situation is similar in Sweden, but I have thankfully not heard of anyone disfiguring someone else for these purposes. Yet. One of the glorious benefits of being a member of the EU is that we now have to put up with organized gangs of beggars coming in from Romania, Bulgaria etc harassing us on our streets. (The leftists have proposed that we add these people to our welfare rolls and give them their own apartment…

Have you a problem with Bulgarian people or Bulgarian criminals?

If you have a problem with Bulgarian people in general, then, well, that is called xenophobia or more simply racism.

If you have a problem with Bulgarian criminals, then complain to your police force. How come you able to spot such criminals so easily while they cannot? Did you make precise and detailed reports to the police about cases you witnessed, experienced personally or know from local hearsay?

Talking about apartments, do you agree on the principle that access to public housing should be given to those most in need? Do you also agree on the principle that the needs for every lawful person should be addressed regardless of their country of origin? If you do, what is the problem them? If you do not, why?

Question for the US readers: do scenes like those depicted in Steinbeck's novel The grapes of wrath still happen? Are people from rural zones like Oklahoma's countryside treated as filthy dangerous foreigners in California? Because that is what we are seeing and experiencing right now in the EU.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#70

Post by newbie12 »

hej wrote: post #58
Muzza wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 100% confident that deporting all foreign beggars in Sweden will solve the problem of foreign beggars in Sweden. I don't really care if this doesn't get to the "bottom of the problem" or whatever. I (or the Swedish people in general) simply cannot be held responsible for the suffering of the entire fucking world. Your links don't make any sense. The DDR used slave labor? Ingvar Kamprad uses various tax avoidance…

You (and I) are responsible if you are enjoying your privileges while – through no fault of their own - others suffer. Sweden and the west got rich through luck and exploitation. You are privileged. You are lucky. Recognize that and act on it.

To the degree I am privileged as a Westerner is not the result of luck or exploitation. It is the result of a very specific tradition of rights and governance. My obligation is to fight to protect and continue that tradition.
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