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America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

economist.com

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Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#21

Post by bell-cot »

tech_ken wrote: post #13

People talk a lot about the bloat at universities, but I think that they don’t often think about that bloat as being the rational response to a system that is increasingly pushing them to (a) provide collegiate credentialling to basically the entire US workforce and (b) operate the infrastructure of a small village. Yes administrative bloat is real, yes universities are opaque morasses of money and bureaucracy. They…

> ...also charged with the care of tens of thousands of young people; keeping them fed, providing medical services, transit, housing, therapy...

This is an all-too-valid point, especially for "young people" who really are not ready to be independent adults.

If Chris graduates from high school, gets a 3/4-time job working at Pete's Pizza Parlor, rents a little apartment to live in, and starts taking old-fashioned correspondence courses from Snail Mail University - then there is near-zero social or legal expectation that Chris' landlord, or his boss Pete, or SMU will provide Chris with much anything in the way of baby-sitting, peer advisors, medical coverage, mental health services, recreational facilities, parallel justice systems, etc., etc.

Vs. if Chris' twin sibling Pat graduates from high school and goes to Big State University...and then has a major mental health crisis? There might be an ultra-luxury resort, somewhere on this planet, which actually provides the level of mental health service which seems to be expected of any university. Might.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#22

Post by bitbangboom »

satellite2 wrote: post #17

This new, "it's because of liberals, groupthink, wokes" tone is really desacralizing the Economist image.

I disagree, I think this was a well researched and thorough accounting of a concerning trend.

Sometimes the opinions and facts provided challenge our worldview, but provide additional information and viewpoints to give us a more complete picture.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#23

Post by shdh »

7thaccount wrote: post #2

I have a super liberal (politically, not in the classical sense) sister as a professor at a small school (non Ivy League). She talks all the time about the hyper bloated administration that literally does nothing except make things less efficient and collect a paycheck. It would seem that whether you're on the political left OR right (or somewhere in the middle), that we can all agree that there is a ton of bloat in…

The increase in the number of administrators has also infected US healthcare and government agencies.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#24

Post by tech_ken »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #12

Restricting student loans for non stem degrees, student visas, and eliminating the non-profit status of higher ed institutions would go a long to reigning in the fat and excessiveness of tuition. Look at the salaries of college admins and board of trustees. Harvard pays their president over $1million one year. It's gone beyond ridiculous.

> Harvard pays their president over $1million one year.

This is simply the free market though. Consider that, for its top executive roles, Harvard is recruiting people who are coming from or comparing the offer to C-suite positions. Harvard's endowment is $36 billion USD, and it takes in like $6 billion annually. It is the scale of a Fortune 500, where executive salaries are in the tens of millions. Like it or not, if you want to pull these top-tier executives to manage your Fortune 500-scale operation, this is what you need to compete against. You may think that's an oversized valuation given what they actually do (and I don't disagree), but from the perspective of the institution this is simply doing business. The only other option is admitting that all executives everywhere are massively overpaid, but good luck getting the US leadership class to acknowledge that one.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#25

Post by beryilma »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #12

Restricting student loans for non stem degrees, student visas, and eliminating the non-profit status of higher ed institutions would go a long to reigning in the fat and excessiveness of tuition. Look at the salaries of college admins and board of trustees. Harvard pays their president over $1million one year. It's gone beyond ridiculous.

> Harvard pays their president over $1million one year. It's gone beyond ridiculous.

Not really. There are software developers in Cambridge, MA making $300-$400K a year.

The problem is not the salary of individual administrators, but the bloated number of them.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#26

Post by naasking »

tech_ken wrote: post #13

People talk a lot about the bloat at universities, but I think that they don’t often think about that bloat as being the rational response to a system that is increasingly pushing them to (a) provide collegiate credentialling to basically the entire US workforce and (b) operate the infrastructure of a small village. Yes administrative bloat is real, yes universities are opaque morasses of money and bureaucracy. They…

> They are also charged with the care of tens of thousands of young people; keeping them fed, providing medical services, transit, housing, therapy, IT support

Yes. The point is they shouldn't be.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#27

Post by freitzkriesler2 »

tech_ken wrote: post #24
freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #12

Restricting student loans for non stem degrees, student visas, and eliminating the non-profit status of higher ed institutions would go a long to reigning in the fat and excessiveness of tuition. Look at the salaries of college admins and board of trustees. Harvard pays their president over $1million one year. It's gone beyond ridiculous.

> Harvard pays their president over $1million one year. This is simply the free market though. Consider that, for its top executive roles, Harvard is recruiting people who are coming from or comparing the offer to C-suite positions. Harvard's endowment is $36 billion USD, and it takes in like $6 billion annually. It is the scale of a Fortune 500, where executive salaries are in the tens of millions. Like it or not, i…

Those administrators and presidents are not top tier business executives but are part of an insestuous community of higher education professionals whose only credentis are that they managed other departments within a college.

Maybe if they came from industry their skills can be argued but the majority of those administrators don't have any experience outside of academia.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#28

Post by devwastaken »

7thaccount wrote: post #2

I have a super liberal (politically, not in the classical sense) sister as a professor at a small school (non Ivy League). She talks all the time about the hyper bloated administration that literally does nothing except make things less efficient and collect a paycheck. It would seem that whether you're on the political left OR right (or somewhere in the middle), that we can all agree that there is a ton of bloat in…

I can also confirm this is true. Costs are sky high, there's accreditation corruption, and research is minimal if not fabricated.

The solution is to pull out gov funding and ban education loans across the board as predatory practices. New things can only begin when the old dies, and we are continually trying to life support a system that is so obviously dead.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#29

Post by tech_ken »

naasking wrote: post #26
tech_ken wrote: post #13

People talk a lot about the bloat at universities, but I think that they don’t often think about that bloat as being the rational response to a system that is increasingly pushing them to (a) provide collegiate credentialling to basically the entire US workforce and (b) operate the infrastructure of a small village. Yes administrative bloat is real, yes universities are opaque morasses of money and bureaucracy. They…

> They are also charged with the care of tens of thousands of young people; keeping them fed, providing medical services, transit, housing, therapy, IT support Yes. The point is they shouldn't be.

Ok sure I'm on board with it. Now convince the millions of students who vote with their wallets to stop attending these all-inclusive campuses.

Re: America's elite universities are bloated, complacent and illiberal

#30

Post by tech_ken »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #27
tech_ken wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Harvard pays their president over $1million one year. This is simply the free market though. Consider that, for its top executive roles, Harvard is recruiting people who are coming from or comparing the offer to C-suite positions. Harvard's endowment is $36 billion USD, and it takes in like $6 billion annually. It is the scale of a Fortune 500, where executive salaries are in the tens of millions. Like it or not, i…

Those administrators and presidents are not top tier business executives but are part of an insestuous community of higher education professionals whose only credentis are that they managed other departments within a college. Maybe if they came from industry their skills can be argued but the majority of those administrators don't have any experience outside of academia.

> Maybe if they came from industry their skills can be argued but the majority of those administrators don't have any experience outside of academia.

So you're annoyed that the highly paid professionals have lots of experience in doing the thing they are paid to do? I suppose if one starts from the premise that all higher ed admin are incompetent by nature, or that managing a unit within a university requires no skill, then I can understand your conclusion, but to be honest I think you're kind of begging the question. The simple fact is that these are massive institutions, and running them is complicated and expensive. Again, if you compare the salary of the president of Harvard to a private organization of similar scale and wealth it's like a 10x difference. It's not clear to me why a university being a non-profit suddenly downgrades the skill required to keep it running.

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