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Sweden Is a NATO Member
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Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member
#82What happened with Turkey's opposition to this?
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Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member
#83Yes, this is a great way to fight against Putin, but... As a Swedish citizen, I think this means in the future Sweden's forces will be dragged into another Iraq-like war down the line. Sooner or later the US or NATO will be the Putin of today, and I don't look forward to that.
Well Sweden could later leave the alliance if it no longer fit its interests. I doubt they would leave just to get out of being "dragged into another Iraq-like war" since well supporting your allies is the whole point of NATO, but if the US or the rest of NATO took the place of Putin, then maybe Sweden really would leave the alliance.
edit: Also wasn't article 5 invoked by the US against Afghanistan and not Iraq? (Maybe I'm not remembering right.)
Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member
#84What happened with Turkey's opposition to this?
> Stockholm introduced a new anti-terrorism bill that makes being a member of a terrorist organisation illegal. Sweden, Finland, Canada and the Netherlands also took steps to relax policies on arms exports to Turkey. [...] Erdogan, who had sent Sweden's bid to parliament in October, linked the ratification to U.S. approval of sales of F-16 fighter jets to Turkey.
https://www.reuters.com/world/turkey-set-approve-swedens-nat...
Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. It's really doubtful Russia will commit to nuclear war. 2. If it does, it will do that regardless of whether or not NATO enters the war or not. Russia has signalled it has no intentions of stopping its war of conquest
Taken together what you wrote here is a convenient framework for all blame of any possible nuclear exchange to be entirely disconnected from NATO.
Describing it as "convenient" does not make also make it any less true or accurate, which are the true metrics a framework should be evaluated by. We can't disregard frameworks just because we don't want one side to benefit, we must evaluate frameworks on whether they represent reality.
Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member
#86Yes, this is a great way to fight against Putin, but... As a Swedish citizen, I think this means in the future Sweden's forces will be dragged into another Iraq-like war down the line. Sooner or later the US or NATO will be the Putin of today, and I don't look forward to that.
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Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member
#87Just in time for Trump to do the rug pull he agreed with Putin back in 2018, when they met in Helsinki and Trump took care to even destroy translator’s notes. If he wins the election, NATO is toast and Putin has carte blanche over East Europe.
Not vouching for him, but Trump did alert the Germans about the risk of over relying on Russian energy [1]. He wanted Europe to become independent of Putin years before this crisis. He did not say these things in the most appropriate way, like everything he says, but it didn't seem like he wanted to weaken Europe before Russia, quite the opposite. [1] https://youtu.be/liGZGGQTYQk?si=Rafuq8eoKc84vpG1
He wanted to sell US LNG. Not more and not less. Russia delivered gas to Western Europe for 60 years, the US could not guarantee LNG deliveries for 2 years [0]
Hopefully the traffic through the Panama canal goes down so Europe can still get US LNG that would otherwise end up in Asia.
[0] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-lng-export-pause-...
Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of Europe is in NATO. NATO nations committing troops would likely drag all of NATO into war with Russia, increasing the chance of a nuclear war. That's not something NATO wants.
1. It's really doubtful Russia will commit to nuclear war. 2. If it does, it will do that regardless of whether or not NATO enters the war or not. Russia has signalled it has no intentions of stopping its war of conquest
I'd be curious what details you're drawing on to make those conclusions.
Regarding #1, do you think this is the case if Ukraine, for example, gains enough traction to attack Russian border cities as a means of preventing a Russian regrouping and counter-attack? Or is the word "commit" doing a lot of heavy lifting here?
Regarding #2, I've heard two scenarios that would counter this. If Russia wins in Ukraine, they likely have an interest in further expansion. If they think NATO isn't really as committed as they claim, a nuclear exchange into someplace like Poland would prove that, as well as giving the US a plausible way to back out of NATO commitments. That's a huge win for Russia. The previous statement about Ukrainian success provides the other example. Both cases are conditional on NATO activities.
Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member
#89Just in time for Trump to do the rug pull he agreed with Putin back in 2018, when they met in Helsinki and Trump took care to even destroy translator’s notes. If he wins the election, NATO is toast and Putin has carte blanche over East Europe.
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Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Something's missing in your comment, like which country is attacking Ukraine for example. That might sounds like a small detail but it has its importance on how the war can end.
It has importance on who to throw opprobrium at for the war, too.