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Nikon to acquire RED

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Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#141

Post by tivert »

_fat_santa wrote: post #87
atoav wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Red cameras are overhyped, but picture quality is not the issue. It is very likely that what you describe is more due stylistic differences in lighting, color grading and editing than due to the camera itself — coming from someone who professionally had to match colors on films shot on multiple different cameras on more than one occasion. Reliability is the main reason why Red cameras are overhyped, but you get good…

ARRI also has their own "picture style", at least the ARRI Alexa. I remember seeing video on YT where the guy bought a really old ARRI Alexa that was used in Hollywood back in 05 or 06. When they showed some of the footage they took with it, it looked exactly like an mid-2000's big screen movie, I honestly didn't realize those movies even had a "look" until I saw his video.

> I remember seeing video on YT where the guy bought a really old ARRI Alexa that was used in Hollywood back in 05 or 06. When they showed some of the footage they took with it, it looked exactly like an mid-2000's big screen movie, I honestly didn't realize those movies even had a "look" until I saw his video.

Is this the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hahBgDUESjE

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#142

Post by closeparen »

cfr2023 wrote: post #103

I started following the RED story before those folks ever released a camera, and I liked their spirit and mission. Some time passed and ultimately it was Black Magic Design that accomplished what RED said they wanted to do. If you say you want to make high end cinema technology, or even just high quality imagery, accessible to the average person, a $17,500 price tag for just the camera body shows that you might have…

It’s not a hobbyists’s impulse buy, but it puts a week’s rental at a couple grand - that’s plausibly a group of upper middle class teenagers. It’s also something the equipment lending library in a media studies department can make available to student projects.

Big step up from shooting on iPhones or hacked DSLR bodies, for a relatively small (in the universe of film production) increment in budget.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#143

Post by cfr2023 »

ramesh31 wrote: post #108
cfr2023 wrote: post #103

I started following the RED story before those folks ever released a camera, and I liked their spirit and mission. Some time passed and ultimately it was Black Magic Design that accomplished what RED said they wanted to do. If you say you want to make high end cinema technology, or even just high quality imagery, accessible to the average person, a $17,500 price tag for just the camera body shows that you might have…

>If you say you want to make high end cinema technology, or even just high quality imagery, accessible to the average person, a $17,500 price tag for just the camera body shows that you might have strange ideas about what constitutes an average person. To be fair, their competition at the time was $200,000+ Panavision rigs that were completely prohibitive to independent filmmakers.

A fair consideration indeed but a very relativistic use of terminology. $17,500 is not $200,000 that's for sure, but it's also not $5000 or $2500 or $100 (not that I expect $100 cine cameras).

My only point is that their hearts were in the right place, but they may have ultimately done their best work as instigators.

As well, despite my appreciation for their company, I never liked the images from their cameras.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#144

Post by cfr2023 »

stephen_g wrote: post #107
cfr2023 wrote: post #103

I started following the RED story before those folks ever released a camera, and I liked their spirit and mission. Some time passed and ultimately it was Black Magic Design that accomplished what RED said they wanted to do. If you say you want to make high end cinema technology, or even just high quality imagery, accessible to the average person, a $17,500 price tag for just the camera body shows that you might have…

The most affordable kinds of cameras at the time that you could realistically use for something going to theatrical release was the (1080p) Sony F900 and then F950, which were in the $250K ballpark… Then the Arri D-21 came out, I can’t even remember what price but same ballpark, it was a bit higher than 2K res. $17,500 for 4K was wild, and it was insane they actually managed to deliver it with the RED ONE.

All good points, though following these acts of instigation for the industry, their competitors overtook them in the path to their goal.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#145

Post by cfr2023 »

closeparen wrote: post #142
cfr2023 wrote: post #103

I started following the RED story before those folks ever released a camera, and I liked their spirit and mission. Some time passed and ultimately it was Black Magic Design that accomplished what RED said they wanted to do. If you say you want to make high end cinema technology, or even just high quality imagery, accessible to the average person, a $17,500 price tag for just the camera body shows that you might have…

It’s not a hobbyists’s impulse buy, but it puts a week’s rental at a couple grand - that’s plausibly a group of upper middle class teenagers. It’s also something the equipment lending library in a media studies department can make available to student projects. Big step up from shooting on iPhones or hacked DSLR bodies, for a relatively small (in the universe of film production) increment in budget.

Very fair points. I'm just nit picking about RED's instigation and influence being more valuable to camera industry than the cameras they delivered and the price points they delivered them at.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#146

Post by cfr2023 »

kkukshtel wrote: post #139
cfr2023 wrote: post #103

I started following the RED story before those folks ever released a camera, and I liked their spirit and mission. Some time passed and ultimately it was Black Magic Design that accomplished what RED said they wanted to do. If you say you want to make high end cinema technology, or even just high quality imagery, accessible to the average person, a $17,500 price tag for just the camera body shows that you might have…

I think if you know the RED story you know that at the time there were effectively 0 consumer-tier high end digital cameras. We're talking basically the advent of the DSLR revolution, where either you shot on a Canon 5D MK II or... an Alexa? Alexas retail around $50,000 (and weren't out until 2010), so RED offering actual 4K video digital camera with an easy conversion to EF mount glass (Canon) and a body that is lit…

An insightful post indeed.

I was acutely aware of it, shooting projects on horrible looking mini DV and expensive film stock.

No question they spurred progress, I'd just envisioned that they would continue to carry the torch with all of their piss and vinegar.

Now Black Magic Design produces ~$2000 cameras that produce consistently better images than RED to this day.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#147

Post by lvl102 »

jiggawatts wrote: post #131

Something that industry hasn't seemed to have noticed is that Nikon has recently released a couple of camera bodies that are very capable hybrid shooters. The Nikon Z9 and Z8 cameras can record up to 8.3K 60fps RAW video in-body[1], and the shutter speed is fast enough to be very nearly "global shutter". They also inherit features common to stills cameras but rare in video cameras such as eye-detect auto focus. Some…

Sony’s “affordable” global shutter A9 III likely changed the competitive landscape. For photography Z9’s stacked sensor is superb but videography is a different story.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#148

Post by gorkish »

justforasingle wrote: post #24

Pretty interesting. If you look on netflix approved camera list[0] there are none from Nikon. Personally I think RED cameras are overhyped and are a major reason most netflix shows all look and feel the same. I don't think its the colour grading or lenses - its something about the camera itself that just feels shit and doesn't give me the same access to a scene the same way something like sony's HDVS from 30 years ag…

I think you are mistaking stylistic choices for something technical.

Netflix shows look and feel the same because they are shovelware, produced to look and feel the same. This is part of why they have style guides and approved equipment lists, but as far as the sensors are concerned -- any modern sensor is up to the task.

There are no Nikon video cameras on the list because Nikon does not make video cameras, although I guess now they do.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#149

Post by sib »

tivert wrote: post #136
justforasingle wrote: post #24

Pretty interesting. If you look on netflix approved camera list[0] there are none from Nikon. Personally I think RED cameras are overhyped and are a major reason most netflix shows all look and feel the same. I don't think its the colour grading or lenses - its something about the camera itself that just feels shit and doesn't give me the same access to a scene the same way something like sony's HDVS from 30 years ag…

> Pretty interesting. If you look on netflix approved camera list[0] there are none from Nikon. I looked at that list and did some Googling, and it looks like Nikon just doesn't make video cameras like the other vendors. All they make are DSLRs that do a little bit of video. This Quora answer ( https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-main-differences-between-... ) bluntly states; "Nikon has never sold a dedicated camcorde…

Nikon also makes mirrorless cameras that do video a lot better than their DLSRs did (especially, for example, the Z9).

But, yes, they don't make dedicated camcorders...

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#150

Post by treflop »

kkukshtel wrote: post #139
cfr2023 wrote: post #103

I started following the RED story before those folks ever released a camera, and I liked their spirit and mission. Some time passed and ultimately it was Black Magic Design that accomplished what RED said they wanted to do. If you say you want to make high end cinema technology, or even just high quality imagery, accessible to the average person, a $17,500 price tag for just the camera body shows that you might have…

I think if you know the RED story you know that at the time there were effectively 0 consumer-tier high end digital cameras. We're talking basically the advent of the DSLR revolution, where either you shot on a Canon 5D MK II or... an Alexa? Alexas retail around $50,000 (and weren't out until 2010), so RED offering actual 4K video digital camera with an easy conversion to EF mount glass (Canon) and a body that is lit…

Yo there were way more video cameras back then than just the Canon 5D and ARRI. News organizations, smaller productions and documentary makers were not just whipping around expensive ARRI’s. Sony and Panasonic made a ton of other professional video-focused cameras. I have an old Panasonic HVX200 right next to me.

But the Red One was definitely still extraordinary because they managed to make a relative-cheap production 4K camera in 2007.

That said, the impact was muted because people didn’t really care about 4K as much in 2007. I don’t think ARRI even released a 4K camera until years later.

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