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Men In Tech

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Re: Men In Tech

#21

Post by chrisguitarguy »

wamatt wrote: post #15

Would someone be kind enough to get us the TLDR version? Not sure the point, the writer is trying to make.

Essentially the author is trying to put the male readers in a women's shoes. In other words, take every sexist tech story that's popped up in tech news in the last few months and reverse the pronouns.

It's certainly an interesting read, but not particularly well executed. There is a book called Egalia's Daughters[1] that does a similar thing in a much more powerful, primal way. Seriously worth a read.

1. http://www.amazon.com/Egalias-Daughters-A-Satire-Sexes/dp/18...

Re: Men In Tech

#22

Post by redwood »

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example.

However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been.

My female friend told me the following which radically transformed my perspective Ask any group of women "What do you do to protect yourself in your daily life?" Dome typical answers - never walk alone at night - hold car keys out while walking to car so you can open car door quickly - do not make eye contact or smile to strangers at night - do not go to bars or clubs alone - carry money in bra in case bag is taken - never put down your drink - the list goes on and on

Women's life experiences are thus characterized by a constant and unending fear of sexual assault.

When you ask men the same question---to list what they do to protect themselves in their daily life... --> the answer is just about nothing.

We men walk around like we own urban environments. We have very little to lose and we have a lot of fun with it all. However we have a major bias that we need to be aware of: women are raised to be in constant fear, a fear they don't share with us. This has tremendous implications throughout life. Also this is only one example of a difference in life experience between men and women. There are of course many more.

Re: Men In Tech

#23

Post by awakeasleep »

Wow. What a killer article. I think it went pretty far in depth, and I let myself take the time to imagine everything the author was describing, and I fuckin felt it man.

If this was written by a man, I applaud the effort you put into empathizing with women. If it was written by a woman, Thank you for thinking up so many creative and kick ass examples.

Our society has a long way to go before we reach equality. And I fucking PRAY it happens with greater reverence for sex in general, instead of applying to crude commercialized form of sexuality to both genders.

I've been noticing people using sexuality in a manipulative and threatening way at work a bunch lately, and it fucking sucks. If anyone out there has trouble socializing, and wants to know a good way to do it: Share your feelings with a girl in private, and start off small. Yeah it makes you vulnerable but that is an essential part of real love. DO NOT make sexual comments in front of other people.

Re: Men In Tech

#24

Post by danso »

redwood wrote: post #22

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example. However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been. My female friend told me the following which ra…

Great points. Just had to say: I've heard that holding car keys at the ready is also intended as a impromptu sharp weapon to an attacker's face/eyes. Which only underscores your general point

Re: Men In Tech

#26

Post by sigmaxipi »

redwood wrote: post #22

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example. However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been. My female friend told me the following which ra…

>Women's life experiences are thus characterized by a constant and unending fear of sexual assault. >When you ask men the same question---to list what they do to protect themselves in their daily life... --> the answer is just about nothing.

Why is this fear a bad thing for women? Interesting fact: men are more likely to be victims of violent crime[1] and this has been pretty much true throughout history[2] though it is getting better. That fear is probably quite useful in keeping them alive since women are only half as likely to be victims of assaults by strangers[3]

[1] http://web.archive.org/web/20060926004448/http://www.ojp.usd...

[2] http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violen...

[3] http://web.archive.org/web/20060927115258/http://www.ojp.usd...

Re: Men In Tech

#27

Post by tomjen3 »

redwood wrote: post #22

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example. However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been. My female friend told me the following which ra…

That's not exactly mens fault though. It is the fault of whomever creates the one in four women will be raped statistic (which is clearly bullshit).

For any females reading this, while plenty of males will want to get into your pants very few males can stomach the idea of rape, so if you feel threatened seek other males. It doesn't matter much if you know them or not.

Re: Men In Tech

#28

Post by dsrguru »

knowtheory wrote: post #6

Reading this is really awkward. And it's not awkward because it reveals some hidden truth, or because it's a good piece of writing that reflects on the issue it's tackling. No, instead it's awkward because the gender dynamics are not reversible. At least, not in the manner that's intended here. You can't just take the circumstances that women face in tech fields, and switch around the pronouns and have the circumstan…

The article reads so awkwardly because that's exactly the author's point. Unless I completely misread the article, the author is trying to convey to the male reader that the issues female programmers face aren't made up by far leftist feminazis, but rather are very real and very difficult for a man to relate to.

Re: Men In Tech

#29

Post by georgieporgie »

CHsurfer wrote: post #11
georgieporgie wrote: post #3

I think this is largely the expression of terrible, terrible social skills. I've seen appalling things toward women and men alike from young, socially inept Bay Area tech males. Also, for what it's worth, I've received a lot of crap from women over the course of my working life. In college, I worked in a deli where I was the only male. There was outright sexual harassment, and regular dismissal of me solely because I…

I don't think anyone, with good or bad social skills, should have to deal with this crap. As a community we have to set the norm, the expectation that this just not ok. For people just entering the community, they may have different norms (coming from their fraternity - or what ever) but if the people around them set the proper example they will pick it up soon enough. Stories like this are needed to help us get ther…

I don't think anyone, with good or bad social skills, should have to deal with this crap.

Of course not, and I didn't want to give any impression that my statement endorsed the behavior.

Rather, I think that it might be more productive to focus on encouraging people to develop greater social skills rather than framing it around male vs female issues. We tolerate too much elitism, condescension, and dismissal of others' feelings in general, which directly contributes to the sexism problem.

Re: Men In Tech

#30

Post by antihero »

georgieporgie wrote: post #3

I think this is largely the expression of terrible, terrible social skills. I've seen appalling things toward women and men alike from young, socially inept Bay Area tech males. Also, for what it's worth, I've received a lot of crap from women over the course of my working life. In college, I worked in a deli where I was the only male. There was outright sexual harassment, and regular dismissal of me solely because I…

I've also seen appalling things toward women from the most social "adept" of people, Rugby teams, bankers...I think the social ineptitude excuse only goes so far.
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