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Nikon to acquire RED

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Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#111

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

dylan604 wrote: post #109
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canon absolutely owns the video market, in many ways. Different context from RED, but you see Canon DSLR video cameras everywhere , especially consumer-level stuff, like streamcasters. Most videos you see, by semipro influencers, and whatnot, are recorded on Canon kit. Also, the TV and movie industry makes heavy use of Canon DSLR kit for their work. It’s an interesting acquisition, and I wish them luck. The rub will…

> Canon absolutely owns the video market, Even after reading other people's comments, this statement is absolutely mind boggling to not respond to it. > Also, the TV and movie industry makes heavy use of Canon DSLR kit for their work. I'm going to need citations for this claim. Nobody in the TV/movie industry likes the DSLR workflows. The record format is shite. The form factor of the camera is shite. The photo lense…

Hey, thanks for the sack dance. I already stated twice, that I was wrong, and thanked the posters for the corrections. This was all long before you wrote this.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#112

Post by dylan604 »

ancientworldnow wrote: post #85
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canon absolutely owns the video market, in many ways. Different context from RED, but you see Canon DSLR video cameras everywhere , especially consumer-level stuff, like streamcasters. Most videos you see, by semipro influencers, and whatnot, are recorded on Canon kit. Also, the TV and movie industry makes heavy use of Canon DSLR kit for their work. It’s an interesting acquisition, and I wish them luck. The rub will…

I'm a colorist with over a decade experience in the industry. I work on about one hundred projects a year (film/tv/commercial/music video) and about 1-2% are canon (dslrs or otherwise). 70% are Arri, 20% Sony (either Venice or FX line), and the remainder are red. Canon has almost no presence in the professional market.

While I would never call myself a colorist, I would say colorist adjacent while I spent a few years in a professional color post house. This would reflect my experience as well. I spent a lot of time with the Sony F55 when it came out, and even with its abilities it was still considered less than Alexa and Red.

The only people that shot Canon in our market were a few that shoot time lapse.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#113

Post by MaxPengwing »

klodolph wrote: post #100
onebot wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ARRI has a specific look and almost perfect directly out of the camera. Compare it to Red or Sony Venice and you see that it is the most appealing. You can make other cameras look like it, but ARRI is just industry standard and produces amazing colors. Their sensor is just fantastic.

Is it the sensor? I though it was the processing.

Yes. But No.

Red V-Raptor S35 XL has 16.5 stops of dynamic range with 250-12,800 ISO. ARRI Alexa 35 has 17 stops of range with 160-6400 ISO. Both use rolling shutters, both have native ISO of 800. Alexa has better low light noise reduction at higher ISO, but Alexa is sharper and has better dynamic range in low light since it uses 8K to 4K down sampling.

The real difference is in the colour straight out of the chip and how the workflow is for DIT on set.

THe major difference I think is that Arri is already easy to use and slots in to the Hollywood human knowledge base and workflows while RED was mostly used by indie filmmakers, documentarians, Youtubers, and Silicon valley people (if you work at Apple in the US you can buy RED cameras cheaply through company benefits). This pretty much created a different culture of what images should look like around the two cameras. an Alexa camera sets you back close to 80K and a fully equiped RED sets you back about 44K. So its easier to buy it and use it while hollywood rents it on the day for the shoots.

You can get a RED to look like it was shot on Alexa and vice versa in post processing today, but the people who work with the different cameras have different cultures of what is "cinematic" image.

btw this is a good comparison https://wolfcrow.com/red-v-raptor-s35-xl-vs-arri-alexa-35-wh...

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#114

Post by dylan604 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #111
dylan604 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canon absolutely owns the video market, Even after reading other people's comments, this statement is absolutely mind boggling to not respond to it. > Also, the TV and movie industry makes heavy use of Canon DSLR kit for their work. I'm going to need citations for this claim. Nobody in the TV/movie industry likes the DSLR workflows. The record format is shite. The form factor of the camera is shite. The photo lense…

Hey, thanks for the sack dance. I already stated twice , that I was wrong, and thanked the posters for the corrections. This was all long before you wrote this.

And now you've said it a third time. It doesn't matter. You made a bold comment that was inaccurate, and people will call you on it to set the record straight. Nobody called you names, nor are they picking on you. It may feel that way, but I don't have any emotions toward you at all. The emotions are on your end.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#115

Post by tombert »

It would be kind of cool Nikon is able to bring the price of RED cameras down. I've wanted a truly professional-grade camera for awhile, but I cannot justify spending $10k-20k for something that would fundamentally be a glorified toy to me (since I don't do anything professional with camera).

I was hoping that pro-grade 4k cameras would drop to the sub-$500 mark by now, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Even the comparatively cheaper Blackmagic Pocket Cinema cameras are on the order of $2,000-$3,000. I guess the engineering for cameras that nice has fairly high "minimum cost" that can't easily be brought down by industrialization?

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#116

Post by atonse »

tombert wrote: post #115

It would be kind of cool Nikon is able to bring the price of RED cameras down. I've wanted a truly professional-grade camera for awhile, but I cannot justify spending $10k-20k for something that would fundamentally be a glorified toy to me (since I don't do anything professional with camera). I was hoping that pro-grade 4k cameras would drop to the sub-$500 mark by now, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Even th…

Isn't 10k already pretty budget price for a _professional_ video camera? Like film class.

At least the film ones (like ARRI Alexa) approach 100k and can be rented as a result.

I think the panavision ones were even more back in the day, but not 100% sure.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#117

Post by dylan604 »

10729287 wrote: post #110
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. Thanks for the data. Sounds like my experience is dated. I know that Sony has taken the crown for mirrorless.

Yep. It’s no more the era of 5DmkII

The 5D definitely grabbed the industry by the lapels, and gave it a good shake. Black Magic followed a few years later, and did their own version of it. For the price of that 5D, you now have the BMD cine cameras. We're pretty much to the point that the lens mount and the physical size of the sensor is the limit to how small a camera can get. It is fun times indeed.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#118

Post by mschuster91 »

staticautomatic wrote: post #106
mschuster91 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking for lighting: all of it. ARRI stuff is expensive AF but worth every penny if you have the need for it.

Is this different in some way from the still photo world where you have like Broncolor that’s unreasonably expensive and no one can explain why?

In the end it's reproducibility for both - you know that when you have a specific setup, it will look exactly the same.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#119

Post by tombert »

atonse wrote: post #116
tombert wrote: post #115

It would be kind of cool Nikon is able to bring the price of RED cameras down. I've wanted a truly professional-grade camera for awhile, but I cannot justify spending $10k-20k for something that would fundamentally be a glorified toy to me (since I don't do anything professional with camera). I was hoping that pro-grade 4k cameras would drop to the sub-$500 mark by now, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Even th…

Isn't 10k already pretty budget price for a _professional_ video camera? Like film class. At least the film ones (like ARRI Alexa) approach 100k and can be rented as a result. I think the panavision ones were even more back in the day, but not 100% sure.

That's fair, but using computers as an analogy: a professional-grade computer from the 90's (e.g. a Silicon Graphics machine) used in professional films would cost like $40,000, but now you can buy something orders of magnitude more powerful than a 90's era SGI workstation for peanuts; virtually any modern gaming rig made in the last 15 years or will outperform even a top of the line SGI from 1995, because computer hardware prices have benefited enormously from industrialization.

I realize it's not apples to apples, but I first heard about the Red One 4k in 2008, about 16 years ago, but it doesn't feel like prices have dropped in the same way that computer prices have. In fact, it's hard to even get a used one from 2008 for less than a grand right now.

I'm not even claiming that it's overpriced, not everything can drop to near-zero-margins like computer hardware can and make up for it in scale. I just really want to use a pro-grade camera and I don't want to spend $10+k to do it.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#120

Post by lanthade »

atoav wrote: post #49
hef19898 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a photographer I know next to nothing about film, let alone cinema. Hence the question, is ARRI gear really as good as people say, and as expensive?

The thing about ARRI is, yeah their gear is expensive, but it is just an incredible combination of good design and stellar engineering. Their cameras are surprisingly straightforward to use, definitely easier than a RED or Sony (with their "every-surface-needs-to-be-covered-in-buttons-but-few-are-where-you-would-expect-them"-mentality). Their light gear is just stellar. I have seen ARRI HMI lamps that took 40 years o…

I 100% agree on the correlation of price and reliability in the professional video world. My experience is in live event production and while Blackmagic has revolutionized the accessibility of high-quality production it does come with a non-dollar price. I've never had a Ross router, switcher, or other auxiliary gear go down during a show. I have experienced multiple show stopping failures of Blackmagic devices. I once was on a show where the BM router locked up fight before showtime. Doors were open and power cycling was not an option. All existing routes were passing signal just fine, it was just control that was gone. We just had to make do for the event, fortunately there were no critical audience facing changes that we needed.

For some clients the savings are worth the risk. For others they absolutely are not. With live you get no chance to shoot it on another day or go back and fix it in post. If there's thousands of people outside the room watching you better make sure that signal chain is rock solid.

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