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Responding to Beggars

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Re: Responding to Beggars

#11

Post by mehulkar »

This has been a huge problem for me. I recently moved to San Francisco after many years of living in the Midwest. I was born and lived the first 10 years of my life in Delhi where poverty was no big deal. It was accepted and not questioned. After living in the States and doing all the chores that someone else would normally do for me in India (dishes, laundry, etc.), it became difficult for me to see people as anything but people and I began to notice poverty.

After 3 months in San Francisco, I'm noticing the pendulum swinging again in the other direction. I don't see anyone paying attention to the homeless, and I know a few pennies here or there aren't going to solve the problem, so I am once again starting to become cold and removed.

I cannot stand saying no to people on the streets, but I have not found a way to get them off the streets either. I promise myself that right now is not the time, and one day I will make a difference.

It feels naive and stupid to think this way. I am 22.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#13

Post by kkwok »

kgrin wrote: post #7

I was on my college debate team; the Nationals final round in 2003 was about this hypothetical ("Give a homeless person a dollar?") I was pleasantly surprised to recently find that it was taped and available online: http://www.parlidebate.com/recordings.php?id=36 I can't fairly condense the salient points, so I'll just encourage you to watch the video - it's long, but well worth it. I can honestly say it changed how…

Thanks for the video. Interesting round to watch--makes me miss my debate days.

Which direction did it shift your views?

Re: Responding to Beggars

#14

Post by kgrin »

kkwok wrote: post #13
kgrin wrote: post #7

I was on my college debate team; the Nationals final round in 2003 was about this hypothetical ("Give a homeless person a dollar?") I was pleasantly surprised to recently find that it was taped and available online: http://www.parlidebate.com/recordings.php?id=36 I can't fairly condense the salient points, so I'll just encourage you to watch the video - it's long, but well worth it. I can honestly say it changed how…

Thanks for the video. Interesting round to watch--makes me miss my debate days. Which direction did it shift your views?

In the direction of giving - either money, or if time allows, something like what Stallman is doing/advocating. The main thing that shifted my views was the notion that even if the money is "wasted" (or might be more effective dollar-for-dollar elsewhere), there's a lot to be said for the human connection - and that even if the recipient is operating under false pretenses (which does happen sometimes), that human connection is worth it.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#15

Post by abhaga »

bhickey wrote: post #10
robocat wrote: post #8

I like to leave money (coins or notes) where someone who needs it may find it - under a bridge, down low where a child might find it, etc. Sure to brighten anyone's day :-) "Donating" money directly is difficult to do with respect and pride for giver and givee... I try to get it right because I feel i could end up poor, old, and drunk on the street. Some beggars strike me as being somewhat entrepreneurial :-). Try to…

All but one of the beggars who approached me in Kathmandu were children. If children can productively beg there is no incentive to educate them. Just send them out on the streets. It isn't a matter of being greedy. It's avoiding counterproductive behavior.

This. In India and probably in many other countries, a lot of beggars operate under some gangs and most of their income goes to them. Especially true for beggars one sees at the traffic signals. So if you pay them, it is added incentive for the gangs to put more people out on the street.

My take on this is that everyone has a different way of being most effective in helping others. To really improve their situation, a homeless person needs someone who can invest a lot more time and effort. So if you want to help them, give to charities that work with them. In our individual capacity, we are more effective in helping someone who already has a platform. Consider financing the entire education of a child. That is more effective use of the money than distributing it piecemeal to several homeless people.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#16

Post by andywood »

I've always made this decision based strictly on whether I am feeling generous enough in the moment to give money to a stranger who asked for it. I personally find bothering oneself about what they are going to do with it to be extremely condescending, and I sometimes suspect it might be a cop-out for simply wanting to hold on to your money. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with wanting to hold on to your own money.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#17

Post by robocat »

bhickey wrote: post #10
robocat wrote: post #8

I like to leave money (coins or notes) where someone who needs it may find it - under a bridge, down low where a child might find it, etc. Sure to brighten anyone's day :-) "Donating" money directly is difficult to do with respect and pride for giver and givee... I try to get it right because I feel i could end up poor, old, and drunk on the street. Some beggars strike me as being somewhat entrepreneurial :-). Try to…

All but one of the beggars who approached me in Kathmandu were children. If children can productively beg there is no incentive to educate them. Just send them out on the streets. It isn't a matter of being greedy. It's avoiding counterproductive behavior.

Sure - avoiding counter-productive behaviour is a good goal. However it is difficult to avoid condescendingly 'knowing' what is best for a child if it aligns with selfish motives, and one knows nothing about the situation...

The question is how to help kids though... I have tried gifting useful stuff to local schools, once I helped teach English to a class. Leaving coins where children might find them seems good to me. Hiding small toys down low is fun too - and is suitable anywhere in the world!

I feel churlish if I do not share my 1st world worth when enjoying the hospitality of other countries... but it takes some ingenuity to come up with ways to do so that are good for all involved...

Re: Responding to Beggars

#19

Post by pemulis »

For the most part, I only give money to homeless people who put out a cup or a hat and don't try to sell me on a story. I've been lied to so many times that I assume every story is a lie. I don't try to buy specific items like food or train tickets, either. I don't want to dictate what they ought to spend the money on. If they want to spend it on food or clothes, great. If they would prefer to spend it on drugs or lotto tickets, I'm not going to reverse a lifetime of bad habits by forcing them to get a sandwich. The money is theirs once I give it to them.

Re: Responding to Beggars

#20

Post by robocat »

abhaga wrote: post #15
bhickey wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All but one of the beggars who approached me in Kathmandu were children. If children can productively beg there is no incentive to educate them. Just send them out on the streets. It isn't a matter of being greedy. It's avoiding counterproductive behavior.

This. In India and probably in many other countries, a lot of beggars operate under some gangs and most of their income goes to them. Especially true for beggars one sees at the traffic signals. So if you pay them, it is added incentive for the gangs to put more people out on the street. My take on this is that everyone has a different way of being most effective in helping others. To really improve their situation,…

> So if you pay them, it is added incentive for the gangs to put more people out on the street.

I sometimes think that is just a handy excuse.

I actually enjoy seeing tourists get taken advantage of, and actively encourage it with my own behaviour.

I often admire go-getting capitalist tourist scams or annoying vendors - at times even illegal or immoral behaviour (people take risks because they need to, not usually out of choice).

Love the rest of your comment... exactly my point that we can all find ways to truely help (while avoiding ways that damage).

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