The Brotherhood of Morons • Hacker News Board

Re: The Brotherhood of Morons

#11

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 2:16 PM UTC

borbulon wrote: post #4

> What Taleb calls the Intellectual Yet Idiot (IYI) - someone who has the mannerisms and interests of a superficially intelligent person but who nonetheless is unable to self-reflect or deal with nuance, such as the Harvard-educated Ben Shapiro. I worked in Harvard Square for 5 years (dead center, across the street from Curious George, between the Greenhouse and the Coop), and it was always my assertion that Harvard…

I had an art teacher that had a poster on his wall:

"An education is no substitute for intelligence."

Some of the smartest people that I've ever met, had little to no education.

Re: The Brotherhood of Morons

#12

Post by SamPatt » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 2:17 PM UTC

There's a lot of truth in this, but I struggle with the conclusion of "avoid stupid (destructive) people at all costs."

While I don't doubt this is best for personal satisfaction and sanity, it feels lacking in compassion.

An example: I have teenage children, and they have some friends in school who fit the stupid description from the article (destructive behaviors). They grew up in unstable homes and didn't have good relationships / behaviors to learn from.

My kids recognize their friends' poor decision making, and are sometimes dumbfounded by their behavior. It gives my kids a realistic view into the lives of others. Also, even destructive people aren't destructive all the time (at least at that point cutting ties is the obvious choice).

It would be easier, and perhaps safer, to push my children to not associate with them - is that really the best policy?

Re: The Brotherhood of Morons

#13

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 2:18 PM UTC

theragra wrote: post #6

ericyd wrote: post #2

I got part way through and quit. I appreciate the author's perspective, but I'm kind of tired of people so adamantly avoiding empathy. It's easy to say someone is acting stupidly; it's much harder to put yourself in their shoes and understand why they might be acting that way. I dunno, maybe there is some wisdom I missed because I didn't finish it.

Agree. Moreover, I don't agree with the author that some people are just stupid and that's it. Especially, with the surgeon example. I really don't think a surgeon can be stupid per se. That should be very rate occurrence. More like people do stupid things all the time. Including author, who is too smug, which I also consider stupid.

Abentmindedness is often mistaken for stupidity.

In my area, we have at least two world-ranked labs. We have Nobel Laureates, driving around.

I encounter "stupid" drivers, all the time. I am one, too. I'm no Nobelate, but I'm smarter than the average bear.

Re: The Brotherhood of Morons

#14

Post by mwenge » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 2:18 PM UTC

empath-nirvana wrote: post #8

I couldn't get through the whole insufferable mess, but I'm going to argue with this point. > The first type, my favourite commenters, whose grim-faced no-nonsense corporate visages grace standups across the world. Thanks to their fearless leadership and keen business sense, I have it on good authority that all projects are scheduled to move from red status to green status despite all those risks unfortunately materi…

Sounds like the thermocline of truth: https://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/15/the-wetware-crisis-the-...

Re: The Brotherhood of Morons

#15

Post by xanathar » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 2:21 PM UTC

ericyd wrote: post #2

I got part way through and quit. I appreciate the author's perspective, but I'm kind of tired of people so adamantly avoiding empathy. It's easy to say someone is acting stupidly; it's much harder to put yourself in their shoes and understand why they might be acting that way. I dunno, maybe there is some wisdom I missed because I didn't finish it.

I quote:

> "The remainder are simply stupid. This is approximately the composition of the organization writ large. The number of people at this organization who dislike their job, their stakeholders, and their salary but don't leave even though they no longer have the energy to work is astonishing, and that alone is enough to constitute stupidity as per Cipolla's definition."

Because, apparently, a person cannot be burned out and at the same time still need food, a home, or whatever they needs a salary for, not to mention they might be on temporary visas and cannot risk being unemployed or any of the other billions of totally sensible reasons keeping them from leaving their jobs.

So to answer your "maybe"... nope, no empathy, no wisdom.

Re: The Brotherhood of Morons

#16

Post by aredox » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 2:21 PM UTC

Very ironic to read this... when Taleb is himself behaving more and more like an inhinged idiot - and no, I am not talking about his takes about the Middle-East, I am talking about his general behaviour and "reasoning"...

Re: The Brotherhood of Morons

#17

Post by boxed » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 2:22 PM UTC

borbulon wrote: post #4

> What Taleb calls the Intellectual Yet Idiot (IYI) - someone who has the mannerisms and interests of a superficially intelligent person but who nonetheless is unable to self-reflect or deal with nuance, such as the Harvard-educated Ben Shapiro. I worked in Harvard Square for 5 years (dead center, across the street from Curious George, between the Greenhouse and the Coop), and it was always my assertion that Harvard…

Funny.. but that sounds like Taleb.

Re: The Brotherhood of Morons

#18

Post by SamPatt » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 2:22 PM UTC

theragra wrote: post #6

ericyd wrote: post #2

I got part way through and quit. I appreciate the author's perspective, but I'm kind of tired of people so adamantly avoiding empathy. It's easy to say someone is acting stupidly; it's much harder to put yourself in their shoes and understand why they might be acting that way. I dunno, maybe there is some wisdom I missed because I didn't finish it.

Agree. Moreover, I don't agree with the author that some people are just stupid and that's it. Especially, with the surgeon example. I really don't think a surgeon can be stupid per se. That should be very rate occurrence. More like people do stupid things all the time. Including author, who is too smug, which I also consider stupid.

This is the problem with redefining commonly used terms like stupid. We tend to view it as lacking intelligence, and intelligence we often define as something like IQ, but the author explicitly rejects that and makes it about destructive (to themselves and others) behavior.

The doctors were likely not stupid according to the standard definition, but were harmful towards both their patients and themselves, thus stupid according to the new definition.

If the article didn't bother bringing up intelligence at all and instead focused on destructive behaviors, it would have made more sense.

Re: The Brotherhood of Morons

#19

Post by icyberbullyu » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 2:23 PM UTC

Misanthropic narcissism, the article.

I'm smarter than everyone la la la la.

What's the solution? Just sit around and bask in how smart you are while the hoards of depth-grovellers endlessly toil away for nuggets of neoplasmid. You are smart. We are dumb. I get it.

Re: The Brotherhood of Morons

#20

Post by ergonaught » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 2:30 PM UTC

He’s clear enough what he’s talking about (and what the original book talks about), and that this isn’t about intelligence, but you couldn’t tell it from the bulk of comments as I write.

I’ll just stop there.