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Nikon to acquire RED

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Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#41

Post by dharma1 »

hnenjoyer_93 wrote: post #8

Interesting that some time ago Red filed a lawsuit against Nikon for using a RAW video compression algorithm that Red claimed infringed its patents, but later dismissed it: https://dpreview.com/news/5338402238/red-is-suing-nikon-for-... https://dpreview.com/news/9301564383/nikon-denies-red-s-laws... https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/04/28/red-patent-lawsuit-ag...

They settled out of court, Nikon started paying licensing fees. Was confirmed by Jarred on a podcast last year.

Maybe that’s what’s partially responsible for the acquisition - also Red struggling to get market share from Arri Alexa on bigger budget productions, and facing pretty stiff competition from lower priced cameras by Blackmagic, Sony etc

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#43

Post by dharma1 »

royjacobs wrote: post #9
andy_ppp wrote: post #5

This could actually be pretty interesting, don’t RED have a patent on compressed raw video? I’m amazed that this patent is allowed but I guess we’ll see Nikon cameras with more advanced video features and probably increased difficulty offering ProRes compressed raw for other manufacturers. I hate software patents so much.

I believe so. Although RED was always being super mysterious and hype-y about it their RedCODE codec is ultimately just JPEG2000 so hopefully Nikon can relax this situation somewhat, which would be a benefit to all manufacturers.

Doubtful Nikon will relax it, just use it as a cash cow to get licensing revenue (like Red has) or as a competitive moat if they stop licensing it

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#44

Post by Almondsetat »

justforasingle wrote: post #24

Pretty interesting. If you look on netflix approved camera list[0] there are none from Nikon. Personally I think RED cameras are overhyped and are a major reason most netflix shows all look and feel the same. I don't think its the colour grading or lenses - its something about the camera itself that just feels shit and doesn't give me the same access to a scene the same way something like sony's HDVS from 30 years ag…

Any RAW image that comes out of a modern digital sensor can be made to look like anything else, as Steve Yedlin thoroughly demonstrated. They look the same because they are lit, edited and color graded the same

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#45

Post by kthartic »

justforasingle wrote: post #24

Pretty interesting. If you look on netflix approved camera list[0] there are none from Nikon. Personally I think RED cameras are overhyped and are a major reason most netflix shows all look and feel the same. I don't think its the colour grading or lenses - its something about the camera itself that just feels shit and doesn't give me the same access to a scene the same way something like sony's HDVS from 30 years ag…

I don't know how old you are, but as a younger millennial these look pretty awful to me (no disrespect). I'm sure nostalgia plays a part. I feel the same way about videos/sci-fi shows from the 2000s - none of the modern stuff quite feels the same.

But as another commenter said, I don't think it's the camera itself - it's the stylistic changes in lighting, camera angles, direction, etc. Each decade has a distinct 'feel' - films/shows in the 80s don't feel like the 90s, or the 2000s like the 2010s, etc.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#46

Post by prawn »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #33
dylan604 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will level the field? If you think Canon's cine options are equal to Red maybe it levels it. However, I think this tilts the field away from Canon to Nikon's favor while leaning more toward Sony as well than Canon. Maybe Canon can tilt it back in their favor if they were to buy Alexa.

Canon absolutely owns the video market, in many ways. Different context from RED, but you see Canon DSLR video cameras everywhere , especially consumer-level stuff, like streamcasters. Most videos you see, by semipro influencers, and whatnot, are recorded on Canon kit. Also, the TV and movie industry makes heavy use of Canon DSLR kit for their work. It’s an interesting acquisition, and I wish them luck. The rub will…

I don't work with anyone who's streaming specifically, but when shooting tourism content for social media and web everyone I've noticed has been Sony - either the Alpha bodies, or FX6/FS7 for more career video guys.

What Canon bodies are you thinking of? Something like R5 or C70?

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#47

Post by lvl102 »

RED is a shitty company that relied on patent trolling the entire industry. It’s sad Nikon was basically forced to pay the ransom. RED is a classic example of what’s wrong with our outdated patent system.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#48

Post by archerx »

Almondsetat wrote: post #44
justforasingle wrote: post #24

Pretty interesting. If you look on netflix approved camera list[0] there are none from Nikon. Personally I think RED cameras are overhyped and are a major reason most netflix shows all look and feel the same. I don't think its the colour grading or lenses - its something about the camera itself that just feels shit and doesn't give me the same access to a scene the same way something like sony's HDVS from 30 years ag…

Any RAW image that comes out of a modern digital sensor can be made to look like anything else, as Steve Yedlin thoroughly demonstrated. They look the same because they are lit, edited and color graded the same

> as Steve Yedlin thoroughly demonstrated

I'm interested in this, do you have a link?

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#49

Post by atoav »

hef19898 wrote: post #38
atoav wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Red cameras are overhyped, but picture quality is not the issue. It is very likely that what you describe is more due stylistic differences in lighting, color grading and editing than due to the camera itself — coming from someone who professionally had to match colors on films shot on multiple different cameras on more than one occasion. Reliability is the main reason why Red cameras are overhyped, but you get good…

As a photographer I know next to nothing about film, let alone cinema. Hence the question, is ARRI gear really as good as people say, and as expensive?

The thing about ARRI is, yeah their gear is expensive, but it is just an incredible combination of good design and stellar engineering. Their cameras are surprisingly straightforward to use, definitely easier than a RED or Sony (with their "every-surface-needs-to-be-covered-in-buttons-but-few-are-where-you-would-expect-them"-mentality).

Their light gear is just stellar. I have seen ARRI HMI lamps that took 40 years of beatings and still worked flawlessly.

The thing is, sure ARRI is expensive, but depending on your production losing a day might be more expensive than buying a whole new camera.

Generally my experience is that a lot of the price of high end gear goes towards reliability, this is true for most other fields of tech as well.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#50

Post by xattt »

hef19898 wrote: post #38
atoav wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Red cameras are overhyped, but picture quality is not the issue. It is very likely that what you describe is more due stylistic differences in lighting, color grading and editing than due to the camera itself — coming from someone who professionally had to match colors on films shot on multiple different cameras on more than one occasion. Reliability is the main reason why Red cameras are overhyped, but you get good…

As a photographer I know next to nothing about film, let alone cinema. Hence the question, is ARRI gear really as good as people say, and as expensive?

Probably reproducibility and consistency.
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