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European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

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Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#651

Post by faiD9Eet »

martin8412 wrote: post #234
nehal3m wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re supposed to signal before you turn the wheel. Way too often I see people signaling as they turn, not because they are trying to communicate with other road users but because it’s the law. Indicate your intent first and then take the indicated action.

Roundabouts..

Some countries, e.g. Poland, require you to turn on your left indicator as soon as you enter a roundabout and as long as you stay in the roundabout. If you intend to exit, you have to switch from left indicator light to right indicator light. Switching happens while steering left. Poland has multi lane roundabouts where you are expected to stay on the innermost lane possible and only move to an outer lane when your exit is close.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#653

Post by JohnFen »

elif wrote: post #425
iforgotpassword wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even then, how do you find the A/C or volume control on a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road, without accidentally touching something else? You just can't feel your way to the volume knob. Sure, you are a responsible driver and would only do that at a traffic light or other completely safe situation, but I don't know how many accidents touch controls in cars already caused with less responsible dr…

I know it will cost me karma to point it out, but in a Tesla you can use voice control to adjust your AC/radio/navigation while your eyes are on the road and your car's 10 eyes are on the road.

I don't think voice control is a good replacement because I tend to play music in the car.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#654

Post by lathiat »

devmor wrote: post #648
lathiat wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What car do you have without power steering? Or, are you referring to electric as opposed to hydraulic power steering? I haven't seen a car without power steering since the early 00s (which was a 90s car). The steering deadzone is not purely a function of power steering. Some of it is design or could be attributed to that, but a bunch of it also comes from slop in the physical connections in the steering column, as w…

It turns out I was mistaken! I haven’t done enough research to determine the actual cause of the effect I have noticed. It might be hydraulic vs electric but I don’t want to make that assumption and be wrong again - I’m going to have to research the steering in other cars I’ve noticed that issue in.

There’s definitely a different feel to the electric motor driven assist. Though there are just many different implementations probably the specific one you had was particularly quirky.

Relatedly I had a Hyundai i30 for a while which has a well known fault where the plastic gear connection (called a Spyder Bush) from the electric motor to the steering column would break. Resulting in slop and a clunk. Not hard to imagine similar failures or bad design.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#655

Post by iforgotpassword »

masklinn wrote: post #647
iforgotpassword wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would we need a synonym for a perfectly working word? Because that's just how language works, I can think of a dozen perfectly working words that have synonyms. The word haptic existed long before touch screens and capacitive buttons. What else could it have been used for then? > as otherwise the haptic properties don’t have to be specified They need to be specified precisely because today buttons that don't ha…

> The word haptic existed long before touch screens and capacitive buttons. What else could it have been used for then? Haptic is anything having to do with touch, it's not specifically feedback (although you can tune the haptic feedback of physical devices as well). A handshake is haptic communication for instance. > They need to be specified precisely because today buttons that don't have any haptic feedback exists…

Well then maybe we should avoid the term haptic button. I've definitely seen it refer to physical buttons. It wouldn't be wrong to use the term to refer to either, even if it's technically pointless for physical buttons, and I guess that's why people do it when it comes to the physical vs touch debate, to emphasize that specific property of a physical button.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#656

Post by panick21_ »

jojobas wrote: post #248
rkagerer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same. Don't give them ideas...

Tesla Cybertruck uses steer-by-wire with almost no redundancy. Electric power steering was bad enough to cause crashes, this is just ambulance chaser's dream.

> with almost no redundancy

Why are you just making stuff up? Cybertruck has lots of redundancy.

Do you have any actual evidence that Cybertruck steer-by-wire design is bad?

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#657

Post by ianleighton »

thsksbd wrote: post #597
modeless wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volume is on the steering wheel. A/C is automatic and I don't need to touch it the vast majority of the time. While driving the most I might want to do is adjust the temperature, and since it's not safety critical I can choose a convenient time. It's at the bottom of the screen so it is easy to do by grabbing behind the bezel and only requires a quick glance to align your thumb. In practice I glance at physical A/C c…

The HVAC controls are a safety critical control because they are what dehumidifies your windshield screen. And quick changes of T or RH needing the user to crank up the heat, turn on the AC and direct the air to the windshield at full speed are very possible depending on where you are. Imagine crossing a miles long tunnel under a mountain separating two weather zones. Hands off my HVAC controls.

A sensible approach I saw in the BMW i4 was to keep the defrost buttons around, among relatively few buttons. (I forget if the climate temp controls were physical too though.)

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#658

Post by kanapala »

elif wrote: post #424
modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

What's the difference between "physical turn signal controls" and "physical buttons with haptic feedback"?

A physical control changes position and stays in that position so you can feel it to know if your turn signal is on for example.

Real button changes position when you press it. Haptic button is flat surface with vibrating motor inside that buzzes so it "feels" like a click. Like in a smartphone.

The ones I have seen have a lag, so you don't immediately know if your button press was registered or not.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#659

Post by FireBeyond »

roeles wrote: post #638
trogdor wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t believe that Tesla still ships cars without a center-press horn button. I own a Model S Plaid, and the horn button’s location on the yoke can generally only be reached by the driver’s right hand. Even more dangerous, its position in space changes dramatically any time you are in the middle of a turn. The horn button is not easy to press in an emergency. Same story with the turn signals. If you are in the midd…

Given that you are most likely to use the horn to prevent an collision, and that during collisions the airbag deploys.. I would say that the center of the wheel is just about the worst place to put the horn button. Slapping yourself in the face somehow seems worse than the airbag deploying properly.

As someone who has had an airbag go off 'in my hand' (resulting in, among other things, a hyperflex of my wrist... trust me, the 'slap in your face' is the least of your concerns. The airbag will be doing that too.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#660

Post by branko_d »

donatj wrote: post #359
branko_d wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then again, it also boggles my mind how car makers in the US continue to use flashing red lights as the turn signal instead of yellow lights. Technology Connections channel had a video about that a while back: https://youtu.be/O1lZ9n2bxWA?si=xKRgMFK1DFBrB3i0

I know Technology Connections complains about it all the time, but I don’t feel like he’s even made a case, he just asserts over and over “and we ALL agree it’s awful” as if he asserts it strongly enough it will become true. Why is it a problem? How is a red blinker actually measurably worse than an amber one? I have never had any sort of issue interpreting a blinking red taillight as turning? With red, you can more…

So a red light turns on. What does it mean? For the next 0.5 s you don't know. Maybe it will turn off, maybe it won't. In the meantime, you have delayed your braking action and decreased your margin of safety. Or you have started braking for no reason, endangering people behind you (and yourself).
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