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Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

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Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#191

Post by wglb »

josefonseca wrote: post #36
bermanoid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only love the style because he has enough on his side to back it up. Anyone else that acted like Linus does on a regular basis would be considered childish and arrogant. I'd take Github's version of any feature, any day, over the official git version, any time they differed - Git is a notoriously user-hostile piece of software interface-wise, and pretty much the only thing it has going for it on the usability fro…

> Git is a notoriously user-hostile piece of software Then you probably didn't use any SCCS before git. Because CVS is even uglier, Bitkeeper is the reason Linus wrote git and every other I tried was more "user-hostile" than git. > pretty much the only thing it has going for it on the usability front is Github. You sound like a Visual Basic programmer who just saw C for the first time. Edit: Bitkeeper, not bucket!

But RCS was a little better. In fact, i think that project invented the reverse diff

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#192

Post by zobzu »

Well here's the thing: Linus is right.

Linus does not hesitate to criticize and always think about things before declaring them cool.

Oh he makes errors like everybody. He's usually not always very nice in messages (read LKML and you'll understand). But he's usually right and he's usually not writing random things because "it is trendy".

So GitHub is trendy. Linus doesn't care. Linus cares for the good features and pull isn't one of them in his eyes. And then again, I think he's right. Pull in GitHub is crappy.

But what's missing from his message is the reason why the GitHub pull is crappy. I'm sure he knows, but he's using half words. Here's the reason:

If GitHub enforced proper pull messages PEOPLE WOULDN'T USE IT. Why? Because it's the easyness to fork and pull that make GitHub successful. So you see, pulls have to be DEAD EASY. And that means also "single text field, no enforcement of anything".

So yeah. GitHub won't fix it, because it'll be bad for their business.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#193

Post by mkramlich »

tytso wrote: post #159

I don't understand why people are upset with Linus's writing style. I considered what he wrote to be quite polite. He was merely stating his standards in terms of what he would and wouldn't accept (and github pull requests are on the "won't accept" list). He even explained why he wouldn't accept it. Furthermore, the patch was deficient in other ways. (a) it was missing the Signed-off-by: header, and (b) it should hav…

I think Torvalds position in this issue was correct. But I disagree with the description of him being polite. In one of his comments his quote was like, "You are a moron." That's not polite. Granted, he has a well-established style when he goes into rant mode on a certain issue. And Linux is his baby more than anybody else's. And he almost always takes the right side of any issue. So we should all cut him some slack. But he was not polite.

Again, it's Linux. And the issue was over what/whether/how he should accept commits into torvalds/linux on GitHub. Anybody's free to commit anywhere and fork Linux or make custom builds, distros, etc. But if there's one place he has the absolute right to be a tyrant is over torvalds/linux. The fact that he also designed and bootstrapped git for the whole purpose of doing version control The Right Way, based on his needs for Linux development, is just icing on the cake of that argument. But he was not polite.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#194

Post by ciupicri »

chj wrote: post #182
nwmcsween wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux and code quality? I think you may be confused.

Please name one project out performing Linux kernel in terms of your definition of code quality. I'd like to have a surprise.

I can't speak for himself, but BSDs, especially NetBSD and OpenBSD are known for their code quality. Quoting from "What is NetBSD?"[1]: "The basic features of NetBSD are: Code quality and correctness ...".

[1] http://www.netbsd.org/docs/guide/en/chap-intro.html

[2] http://corte.si/posts/code/reading-code.html

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#195

Post by mkramlich »

marcamillion wrote: post #68

I don't mean to be overly critical, but is it just me or are the 'godfathers' of computer science starting to sound like cranky old men? I mean....ok....this pull request being inferior to the way HE (the creator of Git) imagined it (or implemented it) is a bit petty imho. What's with the complaining? I am sure this is not the first time I have heard him complaining about something on Github or some other 'new techno…

When you reach 30's, 40's, 50's and after you've seen What Works and What Will Not Work happen over and over again, you just might find yourself turning into that cranky old man too. Also, practices which are acceptable with a single coder or a small number, or on a non-mission critical piece of software may not be acceptable in the other kind of situations. A bit like how having no tests is The Right Thing for a one-off task shell script. Whereas not having any tests will be Dangerously Stupid for say rocket control software. When a developer goes from writing a little me-too CRUD web app to then wanting to commit something into the Linux kernel, somewhere in there you cross that kind of threshold.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#196

Post by drivebyacct2 »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #148
jarek wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 2012 and Gmail can't consistently reflow lines in emails between its flagship web client and its flagship Android client... so yes, it would appear so.

What?

Okay. Thanks for the downvote, so I'll ask again, "what?". I don't know what you're talking about and have never experienced anything that might fit that description. Can you offer an example.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#197

Post by ash »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #189
mindstab wrote: post #85

The man wrote git for use on the Linux kernel. Trying to argue with him about how to use git with respect to your tiny patch to the Linux kernel seems... like missing the point on a great many things. The rules for submitting kernel patches are laid out in great detail. Do you really thing arguing with the gatekeeper is going to change anything?

I think people are arguing for two reasons: 1.) Linus is being a bully. There's a difference between speaking your mind openly and using rhetorical force to invalidate contrary views. 2.) The kernel requirements can be whatever those who control the kernel demand. That's just common sense. Making the leap to declaring that only one text wrapping approach is objectively correct is delusional. If Linus simply said "The…

I don't think his goal is to have no arguments. His goal seems to be "fix this issue, god damn it!" And amusing rant can help bring attention to the issue (note tomayko comment in the original thread). I don't know about you, but the rant is entertaining to me.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#198

Post by ash »

zobzu wrote: post #192

Well here's the thing: Linus is right. Linus does not hesitate to criticize and always think about things before declaring them cool. Oh he makes errors like everybody. He's usually not always very nice in messages (read LKML and you'll understand). But he's usually right and he's usually not writing random things because "it is trendy". So GitHub is trendy. Linus doesn't care. Linus cares for the good features and p…

> So yeah. GitHub won't fix it, because it'll be bad for their business.

I don't think so. Read tomayko comment in the original thread: GitHub acknowledged the issue with Pull requests.

Even if you were right, GitHub could add a way for a project to make its own (enforced) rules.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#199

Post by ozataman »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #189
mindstab wrote: post #85

The man wrote git for use on the Linux kernel. Trying to argue with him about how to use git with respect to your tiny patch to the Linux kernel seems... like missing the point on a great many things. The rules for submitting kernel patches are laid out in great detail. Do you really thing arguing with the gatekeeper is going to change anything?

I think people are arguing for two reasons: 1.) Linus is being a bully. There's a difference between speaking your mind openly and using rhetorical force to invalidate contrary views. 2.) The kernel requirements can be whatever those who control the kernel demand. That's just common sense. Making the leap to declaring that only one text wrapping approach is objectively correct is delusional. If Linus simply said "The…

IMO, the reason Linus is where he is today as an icon and at least some part of the reason we have a rock solid Linux to use across all our commercial and non-commercial projects is because Linus has strong opinions about how things should be.

Somehow, I don't know or have read about that many (if any) world-changing people, who also happen to be "so nice and understanding of others opinions" or "agrees to disagree".

I'm sorry, but there are indeed few ways to design a BMW and many ways to design a glob of metal that can't even move.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#200

Post by scorpion032 »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #147
dhconnelly wrote: post #98

antirez via twitter: "Linus, I'm with you. Preserve your bastion of code quality as it's something rare and rapidly fading away." https://twitter.com/#!/antirez/status/201065752395124737

Because being strong minded about git commit message styles is the same thing as "code quality"?

because both are the consequence of a same inner quality. Caring.
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