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Nikon to acquire RED

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Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#21

Post by bayindirh »

dylan604 wrote: post #19
bayindirh wrote: post #12

It's good for Nikon, IMO. Canon and Sony both have cine equipment. This will level the field. While I moved to Sony, I don't want to see dominance, but competition.

This will level the field? If you think Canon's cine options are equal to Red maybe it levels it. However, I think this tilts the field away from Canon to Nikon's favor while leaning more toward Sony as well than Canon. Maybe Canon can tilt it back in their favor if they were to buy Alexa.

RED, Canon and Sony's cine equipment fills different niches, Sony having the broadest spectrum in the bunch. They're an audiovisual company for decades, which can handle/design/build the whole pipeline from acquisition to production to reproduction.

However, from what I see, Canon is filling a very specific niche and they're good at it. RED is the same.

So, it will not level the big three "capability" wise, but Nikon will have a hand (and feet) in cine market, which will provide them great feedback, development avenues and some cash hopefully.

So, they'll be able to compete in one way or another.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#23

Post by andybak »

Espressosaurus wrote: post #16
unwind wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So uh compressed raw would be just like a regular (loss-less) compressed image format, then? I thought the distinction between raw and non-raw was the use of lossy compression formats like JPEG.

RAW is in linear light. Think spring-fresh, straight from the ADC. JPEG is in perceptual (~log) light. Out of the tap, terrible. It's also compressed. There are lossless and lossy compressed RAW formats.

Wow. The tap water isn't so good, where you are then?

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#24

Post by justforasingle »

Pretty interesting. If you look on netflix approved camera list[0] there are none from Nikon. Personally I think RED cameras are overhyped and are a major reason most netflix shows all look and feel the same. I don't think its the colour grading or lenses - its something about the camera itself that just feels shit and doesn't give me the same access to a scene the same way something like sony's HDVS from 30 years ago does.[1]

[0] https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/360...

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63flkf3S1bE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW26YMe8iUQ

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#25

Post by 7moritz7 »

hnenjoyer_93 wrote: post #8

Interesting that some time ago Red filed a lawsuit against Nikon for using a RAW video compression algorithm that Red claimed infringed its patents, but later dismissed it: https://dpreview.com/news/5338402238/red-is-suing-nikon-for-... https://dpreview.com/news/9301564383/nikon-denies-red-s-laws... https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/04/28/red-patent-lawsuit-ag...

Am I reading this right in that Red has somehow managed to patent the idea of compressing 4K RAW footage on device which holds up the whole industry?

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#27

Post by pixelesque »

justforasingle wrote: post #24

Pretty interesting. If you look on netflix approved camera list[0] there are none from Nikon. Personally I think RED cameras are overhyped and are a major reason most netflix shows all look and feel the same. I don't think its the colour grading or lenses - its something about the camera itself that just feels shit and doesn't give me the same access to a scene the same way something like sony's HDVS from 30 years ag…

That's because Nikon don't have a cinema line of cameras, and the cameras they do have have only very recently added support for higher-end video features like log and ProRes RAW support.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#28

Post by Keyframe »

bayindirh wrote: post #12

It's good for Nikon, IMO. Canon and Sony both have cine equipment. This will level the field. While I moved to Sony, I don't want to see dominance, but competition.

Arri, Sony, Red. Canon is not in high end or TV, there's some overlap in prosumer and low budget though. The latter is also where Blackmagic is.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#29

Post by KaiserPro »

7moritz7 wrote: post #25
hnenjoyer_93 wrote: post #8

Interesting that some time ago Red filed a lawsuit against Nikon for using a RAW video compression algorithm that Red claimed infringed its patents, but later dismissed it: https://dpreview.com/news/5338402238/red-is-suing-nikon-for-... https://dpreview.com/news/9301564383/nikon-denies-red-s-laws... https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/04/28/red-patent-lawsuit-ag...

Am I reading this right in that Red has somehow managed to patent the idea of compressing 4K RAW footage on device which holds up the whole industry?

the patent is this one: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7830967B1/en

Which looks like it's patenting debayering. However I'm not a patent lawyer so I don't know.

I suspect that Nikon were using something like jpeg2000 to store raw frames, and thats why RED were getting all pissy.

Re: Nikon to acquire RED

#30

Post by bayindirh »

Keyframe wrote: post #28
bayindirh wrote: post #12

It's good for Nikon, IMO. Canon and Sony both have cine equipment. This will level the field. While I moved to Sony, I don't want to see dominance, but competition.

Arri, Sony, Red. Canon is not in high end or TV, there's some overlap in prosumer and low budget though. The latter is also where Blackmagic is.

As I said below, every brand has their own niche. OTOH, Canon & Sony has their own sensor fabs, while Nikon doesn't have that, either.
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