Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

tomshardware.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 57 posts

Re: ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

#21

Post by FirmwareBurner »

ipaddr wrote: post #20
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Migration in general maybe not so much because then it's mostly just used as wage suppression, but skilled migration in niche fields like the one ASML operates in is absolutely necessary since a small county like NL can't produce all the specialized labor a large and growing company like ASML in a short timespan to satisfy their massive order books. Training a skilled semiconductor engineer can take 6+ years but you…

Wouldn't they be better off filling most positions locally even if quantity dips because long term those skills transfer rathering then hoping a migrant becomes a local? 40% is a high number required.

The realities of the world never work on "wouldn't it be better if...".

Yes it would be better if there was no war in Ukraine, no war in Gaza, no COVID, no economic downturn with inflation, etc. but the world doesn't function on our wishes, and companies operate on quarterly profits and can't wait for the world to become as they wish.

Re: ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

#22

Post by plextoria »

PeterStuer wrote: post #18

FWIW my take would be the EU should not just prevent ASML from leaving, but also prohibit non-EU ownership for regional strategic reasons.

"Prevent" is a strong word. I would say that the best thing EU can do is facilitate conditions that would encourage ASML to stay home. Something obviously isn't going well if ASML can't expand within NL/EU and putting any further restrictions would scare businesses off.

Re: ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

#23

Post by adriancr »

ipaddr wrote: post #20
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Migration in general maybe not so much because then it's mostly just used as wage suppression, but skilled migration in niche fields like the one ASML operates in is absolutely necessary since a small county like NL can't produce all the specialized labor a large and growing company like ASML in a short timespan to satisfy their massive order books. Training a skilled semiconductor engineer can take 6+ years but you…

Wouldn't they be better off filling most positions locally even if quantity dips because long term those skills transfer rathering then hoping a migrant becomes a local? 40% is a high number required.

For R&D it's usually winner take all, if you fall behind as a company then you might just end up irrelevant.

Re: ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

#24

Post by imiric »

smallhands wrote: post #7
bobs_salsa wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ASML is located in the south of the Netherlands in Maastricht which sits at around 50m above sea-level. So they have nothing to worry about on the climate change front

50m above sea is not that safe !

The Netherlands is possibly the safest (coastal) country in the world when it comes to rising sea levels. They've been taking back land from water for centuries.

Re: ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

#25

Post by ako »

vivekd wrote: post #17
notanormalnerd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU overall is in a less than reproduction rate. With less than two kinds per woman on average. With the boomer generation going into pension now there are a lot of jobs left unassigned. At the same time people are getting better educated and strive for higher jobs. The notion that immigrants take away jobs is bullshit that has been fed to you by exactly those right wing shills. It's not the 2000nds anymore. We ne…

They said that about Canada too. As a result we had a surge in immigration that led to huge jumps in youth unemployment. If companies are so desperate for workers why are wages stagnant and why are so many people getting ghosted during job interviews and why does it take so many applications to find a job. This doesn't add up. We have record numbers of women in the workforce basically doubling the number of workers c…

Prices are dictated by a global purchasing market. This means that salaries cannot grow because otherwise companies wouldn’t make profit, as they have to compete with products built by Chinese companies with much lower salaries.

Re: ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

#26

Post by JumpCrisscross »

beretguy wrote: post #11
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love it when right wing political muppets are being shut down by innovative companies. What a lot of xenofobic pundits from wealthy counties who vote right wing don't understand, is that a lot of their economic growth they saw in the last decade or two came BECAUSE of migration. Would be curious if they're ready to put their money where their mouth is, as in, accept economic contraction for the sake of "getting rid…

Why is migration considered a good thing? Migrants are taking away jobs from locals. Moving places is hard, you leave family and friends behind. It’s better when everybody finds jobs locally where they live.

> better when everybody finds jobs locally where they live

This is a valid position. But naturally, those jobs won’t be of the high-value globally-connected variety. Plenty of agricultural communities do okay; they just aren’t going to be a good place for an ASML to be based.

Re: ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

#27

Post by PlutoIsAPlanet »

PeterStuer wrote: post #16
ThisIsMyAltAcct wrote: post #4

> A significant portion of ASML's workforce, about 40%, consists of labor migrants. The company has expressed concerns about the potential tightening of labor migration rules by a new right-wing cabinet, which could hinder its ability to hire new personnel and grow

Not informed about NL politics, but would any government be hindering high skilled legal immigration? In my experience this type of migration is highly encouraged, regardless of the left/right leanings of a government.

Yes, as an example the UK government just made it harder for foreign caregivers to migrate to the UK, despite the fact there's a severe shortage.

https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1759597950353752091...

Less migrants, or at least looking like you're trying to have less, tries to get the populist vote.

Re: ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

#28

Post by jessekv »

PeterStuer wrote: post #16
ThisIsMyAltAcct wrote: post #4

> A significant portion of ASML's workforce, about 40%, consists of labor migrants. The company has expressed concerns about the potential tightening of labor migration rules by a new right-wing cabinet, which could hinder its ability to hire new personnel and grow

Not informed about NL politics, but would any government be hindering high skilled legal immigration? In my experience this type of migration is highly encouraged, regardless of the left/right leanings of a government.

Lately the Netherlands is revising tax laws that are disproportionately advantageous to those with higher incomes.

Tax breaks for well-paid foreigners are difficult to justify in this political climate, and have been reduced substantially in recent years.

Re: ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

#29

Post by weweersdfsd »

PeterStuer wrote: post #16
ThisIsMyAltAcct wrote: post #4

> A significant portion of ASML's workforce, about 40%, consists of labor migrants. The company has expressed concerns about the potential tightening of labor migration rules by a new right-wing cabinet, which could hinder its ability to hire new personnel and grow

Not informed about NL politics, but would any government be hindering high skilled legal immigration? In my experience this type of migration is highly encouraged, regardless of the left/right leanings of a government.

Definitely some are. In Finland the situation is basically such that if you cross the border from Russia illegally, you can just claim asylum and stay here for a long time, especially if your home country refuses to take you back against your will (which requires a police escort and lots of bureaucracy anyway). Meanwhile legal migrant workers, including skilled labor, are now subjected to tightened employment restrictions. If you lose your job and don't start in a new one within six months (original plan was three), you'll have to leave. This may make sense for low-skilled labour (of which there is no real shortage anyway), but IMO not for highly trained specialists that are in demand.

Many EU countries are only good at attracting exactly the kind of migration that isn't beneficial to economy.

Re: ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

#30

Post by yourusername »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #6
jbverschoor wrote: post #5

May? Most likely will.

Where would they go? Germany? They don't give any tax breaks for migrant workers there. Actually nobody else in the EU does, it's only a Netherlands feature. Switzerland? It's even more difficult to get work visas there. US? Same and you need to pay even higher wages. Belgium? UK? Luxemburg?

From reporting in Dutch newspapers the government thinks ASML might be considering France.
Post reply on HN