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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#821

Post by fennecbutt »

Terretta wrote: post #658
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. This is funny to point out since they did it specifically to sue over it (you pretty much can't other wise). So Apple has their draconian 30% cut or there's literally no other way to have an application run on iOS policy, you can't challenge it without breaking it so you can sue, and because you broke it to sue you are now permanently barred from every maki…

> So Apple has their draconian 30% cut This notion that 30% is 'draconian' is curious since Steam -- on supposedly open PC -- costs devs more, and even 30% is wrong since it's not 30% below a certain revenue level or in the second year onwards, again in line or less than stores on other platforms.

Yes except Steam: * Takes their cut for games purchases on their store

* Doesn't have any rules about in game payments/utxns, if you want to use steam wallet for that they'll take 30%, if you want to process the payment yourself or direct users to a website they don't care at all

The last point is Apple's monopoly, along with no sideloading; because if I don't want to use Steam then I can use whatever else I want to.

But I agree, 30% even just on games purchases is too high, and we should reduce this profiteering across the board, Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc. Good thing we can multi task, right?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#822

Post by fennecbutt »

concinds wrote: post #748
overgard wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to see Apple being in the right here. While I'm not so naive as to think one company is "good" and the other "bad", I do think that as developers Epic is fighting for our best interests. Apple's app store monopoly serves only Apple.

Criticize Apple vigorously and criticize Epic vigorously. Epic's been fined for dark patterns, data collection on minors below 13, and their entire business model relies on getting children to buy worthless cosmetic skins out of peer pressure, while optimizing for engagement and addiction. It's a predatory business model that should be illegal. One of their main goals in bypassing IAP is to make these microtransactio…

Source for your last point there, please.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#823

Post by fennecbutt »

Despegar wrote: post #337
jsnell wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 12. The gatekeeper shall apply fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory general conditions of access for business users to its software application stores, online search engines and online social networking services listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9). Apple don't get to deny access to their main competitor in this space just as a show of force. That is not fair, reasonable or non-discrimina…

This will be another issue determined by EU courts, but Apple is not justifying it as a show of force. They're justifying it based on Epic's prior breach of contract and statements they've made. I think based on the record, courts will side with Apple.

The courts and 49% of people would side with Apple even if it turned out they were grinding up orphans to make iPhones.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#824

Post by ksec »

Despegar wrote: post #57

Epic perhaps thought Apple might show them grace after the lawsuit in the US. A kind of repeat of the Apple-Samsung litigation where everyone has a "it's just business" attitude and keeps doing business together while simultaneously suing each other. Apple on the other hand has decided they will show them no quarter. I don't think they're being emotional about it. I think it's to show every other developer that they…

>A kind of repeat of the Apple-Samsung litigation where everyone has a "it's just business" attitude

Very different. Steve was taking Samsung to court partly ( or largely ) taking Android with it. But Tim wasn't a supporter of that, or at least behind the scene he was dealing with Samsung ( or Samsung Display, Samsung Foundry and Samsung Memory divisions directly ). So yes it was all it's just business in large because Tim was there to smooth things out. Or partly because Tim knew they cant do it without Samsung. Zero Chance at the time and they wasn't a trillion dollar company then.

I dont see any similarities here with Apple and Epic.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#825

Post by OCASMv2 »

wkat4242 wrote: post #614
lamontcg wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. I can believe that Apple is acting incredibly badly in this case without needing to fluff up Epic Games at all. Apple and Samsung could sue each other and do business with each other because the stakes were lower and they were more codependent.

> Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. This is what's wrong with the current overly capitalist system. Companies are totally allowed to have no conscience, and externalise whatever they please to consumers and the environment. And you could even argue they are 'forced' to do so by due diligence legislation. If we let this continue there will…

Hard not to act as they do when its consumers happily reward them with their money.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#826

Post by throwaway2990 »

Razengan wrote: post #386

With all the money Epic has spent, and lost, on this, along with the billions they're making from Fortnite and Unreal, they could have made their own phone and platform by now.

It would be trash like their EGS. No one would use it.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#827

Post by fennecbutt »

ksec wrote: post #820
fennecbutt wrote: post #818

Why is it okay for Apple to ban Epic but allow other devs when it would likely be illegal for Samsung to refuse to sell displays to Apple but sell them to other manufacturers?

>would likely be illegal for Samsung to refuse to sell displays to Apple but sell them to other manufacturers? Not entirely sure why that would be illegal? You can argue Apple cant do that because there are only two Smartphone ecosystem. But there are plenty of OLED display supplier out there.

There are, but none are as desirable as Samsung. If Apple wanted it to, it could fall under refusal to deal, Apple are very good at twisting courts to their advantage.

Remember when I think it was iPhone 11 or something, they had to use LG and Samsung screens to meet demand, but the consumer reaction was for people desperately trying to hunt down units with a Samsung screen because the quality was noticeably better.

Samsung is probably Apple's biggest competitor, you can bet that they would most certainly rather pay LG, or literally anybody other than Samsung if they could, right?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#828

Post by Zuiii »

daemin wrote: post #757
amelius wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Indeed. It all boils down to: if I buy a product from company A, then want to use that product to do business with company B, why does company A have anything to say about it? Am I not the owner of my device?

Increasingly in this modern world, no, you are not the owner of the device. You're more like purchasing the right to use it for a time, in the way that the makers want you to use it. This applies across PCs, Macs, and Phones where Microsoft, Apple, and Google all try to up-sell you on their online services and now their "AI tools".

Hopefully changing laws will cure companies from this delusional take. Most reasonable people don't think this way.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#829

Post by fennecbutt »

dwaite wrote: post #717
Phrodo_00 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Publishing a Chrome browser extension more-or-less requires being a customer of the Chrome Web Store Emphasis on more-or-less, though. You can use Chrome developer mode (which is NOT a paid option and doesn't require an account) to import extensions from files. You can't do that in iOS. That's Epic's point.

Do you think this is a viable distribution model for web extensions, e.g. an alternative to the Chrome Web Store?

Of course it could be better, so why doesn't Apple show us all what really streamlined and well implemented third party app store support looks like?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#830

Post by fennecbutt »

yakkityyak wrote: post #430
layer8 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Imagine if everyone wanting to publish a web app would have to be a customer of the respective browser vendors. Everyone complains about Google and Mozilla and Safari and Edge. Luckily, that doesn’t prevent us from having our web ap…

I don’t quite understand why they happily subscribe to this model with Xbox PlayStation and Nintendo, but are adamant about getting their way with Google and Apple.

Apple sells iPhones for a profit even before the app store is involved. Consoles rely on game sales.
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