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U.S. students will take the SAT online

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Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#191

Post by Manuel_D »

germinalphrase wrote: post #110

As a former educator, I look forward to the day that we can simply track student ability in a trustable manner based on long term data collection in the classroom rather than requiring these additional, often expensive, exams. We would need to mediate our classroom interactions more than we do now - but the tools do so usefully are there if packaged correctly.

How do you do that data collection, though? And more importantly, how do you effectively compare across different schools and districts? Some high school give out As in math to students that can't do basic algebra.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#192

Post by listenallyall »

ipython wrote: post #152
ml_giant wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I took the GRE in 2017, I got a really bad bloody nose right when the test started and I couldn't pause the test. The person monitoring wouldn't let me have a bunch of tissues at the computer (Perhaps due to cheating concerns), so each time I needed a new tissue I had to raise my hand and she gave me one. I didn't end up scoring very well.

Sounds like you should have bled all over the computer and let them deal with it. The lack of empathy they showed is abhorrent. Ugh. I’m sorry to hear that.

That's like suggesting you trash a hotel room because of some grievance with corporate policy. What actually happens is some innocent housekeeper gets stuck cleaning up the mess you made. The local test proctors are tasked with following very strict procedures and not given any room for discretion, especially if the testee isn't voluntarily withdrawing. It has nothing to do with an individual lack of empathy.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#193

Post by germinalphrase »

huytersd wrote: post #183
germinalphrase wrote: post #110

As a former educator, I look forward to the day that we can simply track student ability in a trustable manner based on long term data collection in the classroom rather than requiring these additional, often expensive, exams. We would need to mediate our classroom interactions more than we do now - but the tools do so usefully are there if packaged correctly.

Classrooms are not built equal. The grading is highly subjective based on the teacher and there is a strong incentive to make it seem like kids are doing better than they really are. Nothing can replace a standardized test that puts everyone on an objectively measurable plane.

If there were a common tool for integrating assessment into instruction, it would be possible to continue to rank/sort students regardless of their educational context. Understanding the rigor of the course itself would necessarily be quantifiable as well. Think of it more like "we do a standardized test every lesson/week/month" instead of once a year.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#194

Post by brobinson »

jobmeplease wrote: post #149
ghaff wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is looking at your SAT score from 10 years ago?

I applied to Canonical a few months back and they made me write an essay describing my high school grades, extracurriculars, and test results. I've never had that experience in any other job app so it's pretty Canonical specific but it does happen.

Imagine you did all of that, received and accepted an offer, and then they made you work on snap. Grim.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#195

Post by knightoffaith »

dandesim wrote: post #123
ghaff wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standardized tests actually correlate better with academic success than a number of other measures. Some Ivies have recently been reinstituting standardized testing requirements.

That’s just straight false, or at least I have never seen any evidence showing a strong correlation. What has been shown is the negative advantage minorities, impoverished, ESL, disabled people have when taking the test and the advantages that wealthy people who can pay for tutors have.

>What has been shown is the negative advantage minorities, impoverished, ESL, disabled people have when taking the test and the advantages that wealthy people who can pay for tutors have.

How does this contradict the GP? This doesn't necessarily seem inconsistent with standardized tests correlating better with academic success on its face. Because I would expect that such people tend to have not just worse standardized test scores but also worse academic success (because of the advantages that wealthy people have that these people lack).

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#196

Post by germinalphrase »

gxs wrote: post #121
germinalphrase wrote: post #110

As a former educator, I look forward to the day that we can simply track student ability in a trustable manner based on long term data collection in the classroom rather than requiring these additional, often expensive, exams. We would need to mediate our classroom interactions more than we do now - but the tools do so usefully are there if packaged correctly.

This is a nice ideal to strive for, but until everyone goes through the same education system there will always be a need for some form of...standard testing across the board. I think the closest we’d be able to get to this is maybe smaller, more granular standardized test that do a better job of testing multiple specific dimensions over an academic career vs a big bang at the end. Somehow that actually sounds kind o…

"I think the closest we’d be able to get to this is maybe smaller, more granular standardized test that do a better job of testing multiple specific dimensions over an academic career vs a big bang at the end."

This is the heart of the concept, yes. We should be attempting to make in-classroom assessments as trustable as standardized tests which would allow them to continuously implemented during instruction. The quantity of data will provide a significantly more robust representation of a student's abilities today, and over time, compared to the infrequent snapshots of the ACT/SAT/etc.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#197

Post by germinalphrase »

aaomidi wrote: post #136
germinalphrase wrote: post #110

As a former educator, I look forward to the day that we can simply track student ability in a trustable manner based on long term data collection in the classroom rather than requiring these additional, often expensive, exams. We would need to mediate our classroom interactions more than we do now - but the tools do so usefully are there if packaged correctly.

Man I hate this. The one thing I loved about schooling in Iran is that there wasn’t a constant system of surveillance. I hate the idea of long term data collection during a time a kid is supposed to be able to learn.

Surveillance would be a less of problem if we took data and privacy rights more seriously. We should and must.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#198

Post by freedomben »

jobmeplease wrote: post #149
ghaff wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is looking at your SAT score from 10 years ago?

I applied to Canonical a few months back and they made me write an essay describing my high school grades, extracurriculars, and test results. I've never had that experience in any other job app so it's pretty Canonical specific but it does happen.

Wow, this is fascinating to me.

When I interviewed at Red Hat is was almost entirely technical. There was a computerized technical test (essentially "here's a VM, set up " and then a script grades it), a verbal technical interview, and then a panel/presentation that was specifically about the process I took my previous company through in adopting k8s.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#199

Post by bllguo »

listenallyall wrote: post #192
ipython wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you should have bled all over the computer and let them deal with it. The lack of empathy they showed is abhorrent. Ugh. I’m sorry to hear that.

That's like suggesting you trash a hotel room because of some grievance with corporate policy. What actually happens is some innocent housekeeper gets stuck cleaning up the mess you made. The local test proctors are tasked with following very strict procedures and not given any room for discretion, especially if the testee isn't voluntarily withdrawing. It has nothing to do with an individual lack of empathy.

ironic. they demonstrate the exact lack of empathy they think they are deriding

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#200

Post by harkinian »

ipython wrote: post #152
ml_giant wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I took the GRE in 2017, I got a really bad bloody nose right when the test started and I couldn't pause the test. The person monitoring wouldn't let me have a bunch of tissues at the computer (Perhaps due to cheating concerns), so each time I needed a new tissue I had to raise my hand and she gave me one. I didn't end up scoring very well.

Sounds like you should have bled all over the computer and let them deal with it. The lack of empathy they showed is abhorrent. Ugh. I’m sorry to hear that.

This happened to me during a written final exam, and yes I bled on the test a bit. Was using one hand to control the bleeding, but sometimes I had to turn pages, plus it was dripping all down my arm. Even the digital scan showed my bloody fingerprints on every page plus some large drop stains.
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