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A web-based Excel/database hybrid

ragic.com

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Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#51

Post by roryokane »

specialist wrote: post #33

Idea #22 is a web version (realization) of Lotus Improv. He's old enough that he should know better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Improv I've been waiting ages for this. Desktop, web-based, tablets, however. Old timers may recall that Lotus Symphony had both database and spreadsheet features, like a multi-app. It was cool. At the time, Lotus Improv seemed like a healthy fusion, next logical step, minimum viable…

I’m interested in what you say about Lotus Improv, but I’m having trouble understanding what it has to do with Ragic Builder.

  He's old enough that he should know better.
Who is old enough, the Ragic Builder creator or PG? That person should know better than to what?

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#52

Post by stcredzero »

longneckdeer wrote: post #38
mattmanser wrote: post #36

This isn't what you think it is. It's definitely not an excel competitor. It feels like a cross between an Access and a Salesforce competitor. It looks like you're close to making a good product. But you're at 90%. Basically I tried creating a little app and it's very painful. I don't believe you've sat with a user and watched them try to create an app without you intervening and giving guidance. So sit down with som…

Thanks, very useful comment, and I apologize for the confusion that you experienced. Right now most of the Ragic developers first go through 2 hours of training before they start building. So they kind of know what the basics process are. We are in the transition process trying to move from a tool that we personally teach developers how to use, to a self help type of product that developers can start by themselves. F…

Right now most of the Ragic developers first go through 2 hours of training before they start building.

That's a lot of friction to overcome! I suspect there's about between 2 and 3 orders of magnitude ratio for Ragic user-developer's ramp-up time and Ragic developer's time to reduce it.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#53

Post by specialist »

roryokane wrote: post #51
specialist wrote: post #33

Idea #22 is a web version (realization) of Lotus Improv. He's old enough that he should know better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Improv I've been waiting ages for this. Desktop, web-based, tablets, however. Old timers may recall that Lotus Symphony had both database and spreadsheet features, like a multi-app. It was cool. At the time, Lotus Improv seemed like a healthy fusion, next logical step, minimum viable…

I’m interested in what you say about Lotus Improv, but I’m having trouble understanding what it has to do with Ragic Builder. He's old enough that he should know better. Who is old enough, the Ragic Builder creator or PG? That person should know better than to what?

Ragic claims to be a fulfillment of Idea #22. I haven't tried it, so can't comment. I'm just observing that Improv predates Idea #22 by about 1.5 decades.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#54

Post by gruseom »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #50

There are two markets: 1. The programmers, utilizing an Excel+SQL setup for users in an IT setting. 2. The business users who use Excel for more than they should be, or use it in a place a DB would be far more efficient. Like another poster said, the former probably aren't going to find anything above and beyond what they can't already accomplish with a DB and Excel. The latter, on the other hand, are a huge market a…

Why do you want "an Excel/DB setup"? In what ways is Excel not enough?

You mention that a DB would be far more efficient. What kind of efficiency do you have in mind?

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#55

Post by tatsuke95 »

gruseom wrote: post #54
tatsuke95 wrote: post #50

There are two markets: 1. The programmers, utilizing an Excel+SQL setup for users in an IT setting. 2. The business users who use Excel for more than they should be, or use it in a place a DB would be far more efficient. Like another poster said, the former probably aren't going to find anything above and beyond what they can't already accomplish with a DB and Excel. The latter, on the other hand, are a huge market a…

Why do you want "an Excel/DB setup"? In what ways is Excel not enough? You mention that a DB would be far more efficient. What kind of efficiency do you have in mind?

Querying and manipulating millions of rows. Basic usage of Excel doesn't work well there, in my experience.

The technique I've used in the past is to use SQL to query and output the data I need, then manipulate it in Excel. I'll leave it open that I'm not good enough with Excel, but I find MySQL query language more powerful for filtering, grouping, etc. However, there are a few too many steps in there, and it's not something I'll be teaching my mother. Someone actually has to set up the database, and that's no cake walk for the lay person.

Now, I'm going to take a guess that you're implying that Excel already has these features, to which I'll answer: possibly, but nobody I know is using them. That's why I think it's a large market.

But hey, if you know a solution off the top of your head, let me know. I'm always looking!

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#56

Post by gruseom »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #55
gruseom wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want "an Excel/DB setup"? In what ways is Excel not enough? You mention that a DB would be far more efficient. What kind of efficiency do you have in mind?

Querying and manipulating millions of rows. Basic usage of Excel doesn't work well there, in my experience. The technique I've used in the past is to use SQL to query and output the data I need, then manipulate it in Excel. I'll leave it open that I'm not good enough with Excel, but I find MySQL query language more powerful for filtering, grouping, etc. However, there are a few too many steps in there, and it's not s…

No, I don't think Excel already has those features. It's an open question how to do it in a way that the average spreadsheet user will find intuitive. Sounds like you have some opinions about that, as do I. But it looks like these guys have a useful product and I don't want to hijack their thread. If you want to discuss it offline my email is in my profile.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#57

Post by shill »

viraptor wrote: post #37
shill wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like QuickBase for prototyping and departmental applications but it does have it's idiosyncrasies. Unfortunately, I don't get to use it much anymore because I am bootstrapping a startup and it is too expensive (not free enough) for us. If we start scaling I will use QuickBase to automate as much as possible. I have a working DBAPI compliant Python module that is about 40% complete. It really needs a method to trans…

Not sure how much I can contribute, but I'd definitely appreciate it if you ever do publish it.

Cool. I'll email you when it's ready public consumption.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#59

Post by redwood »

longneckdeer wrote: post #5
ses wrote: post #3

This is very pendantic I know but in your demo video the line 'They all have tons of features that Emily don't need, all she needed the most is a CRM with attendance records' would be more correct English if it read: 'They all have tons of features that Emily doesn't need, all she needs is a CRM with attendance records'. In any case, the concept sounds good and is otherwise well presented.

Hey thanks! I really appreciate this, my English is not all that good.

Front page grammatical issues: "Most of the apps in our library is free" should be "...are free"

Anyway I haven't tried your products, but I'm very positive about what you're trying to do. The HN community is so comfortable with programming that they'll connect less with the value of this concept than many, so take their comments with a grain of salt. For the countless people out there who feel constrained by their knowledge of spreadsheets --- useful but limited in scale --- this could be very useful, if done right

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#60

Post by wilgertict »

redtexture wrote: post #45

Essentially, your pricing indicates that you offer only the crippled version of the application unless the individual or small group obtains the $199.99 per month account. The pricing and usage limitations on forms for "personal" (one user / 10 forms / $19.95/month) and "lite" (20 users, 10 Forms, $99.99/month) indicate that you don't understand that full collaboration for both large and small entities is where you w…

What redtexture says: all my clients would need the $199/month package because they are collaborating with multiple people (otherwis they could be using Excel with a lot less trouble). But for $2400 a year it's not that much of a cost saving anymore. Please offer "more reasonable" pricing plans.
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