Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI and Elon Musk

openai.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

881–890 of 1001 posts

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#881

Post by ben_w »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #133
uncomputation wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don't refute that they did betray it They do. They say: > Elon understood the mission did not imply open-sourcing AGI. As Ilya told Elon: “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...” Whether you agree with this is a different matter but…

The benefit is the science, nothing else matters, and having OpenAI decide what matters for everyone is repugnant. Of course they can give us nothing, but in that case they should start paying taxes and stop claiming they're a public benefit org. My prediction is they'll produce little of value going forward. They're too distracted by their wet dreams about all the cash they're going to make to focus on the job at ha…

> The benefit is the science, nothing else matters, and having OpenAI decide what matters for everyone is repugnant.

OpenAI gets to decide what it does with its intellectual property for the same reason that a whole bunch of people are suing it for using their intellectual property.

It only becomes repugnant to me if they're forcing their morals onto me, which they aren't, because (1) there are other roughly-equal-performance LLMs that aren't from OpenAI, and (2) the stuff it refuses do is a combination of stuff I don't want to exist and stuff I have a surfeit of anyway.

A side effect of (1) is that humanity will get the lowest common (moral and legal) denominator in content from GenAI from different providers, just like the prior experience of us all getting the lowest common (moral and legal) denominator in all types of media content due to internet access connecting us to other people all over the world.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#882

Post by qarl »

edgyquant wrote: post #868
qarl wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was the fact that they needed a lot of money to train AGI. Everyone seems to agree that's the case. Do you have evidence that it's not?

What does “train AGI” even mean dude

It means to run the back-prop algorithm to train neural networks to solve the problem(s) of AGI.

Dude.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#883

Post by thallavajhula »

tcgv wrote: post #595

This post is a lame PR stunt, which will only add fuel to the fire. It tries to portray openAI as this great bennefactor and custodian of virtue: > “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...” > I've seen you (and Sam and other OpenAI people) d…

In this context (Elon v. OpenAI), I don't see how this seems like a lame PR stunt. They are defending their stance against Elon's BS. He's been spewing BS over the past couple of years saying he funded them to make the open source while he's always wanted the tech for his company and always meant to make it a closed tech with the intention to compete against Google. Elon literally mentioned that OpenAI should merge with Tesla and use it as a cash cow. After reading all of this, you think OpenAI's response is a PR stunt? What about Elon's lies so far? If anything, this drama just details out Elon's hypocrisy.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#884

Post by ben_w »

jajko wrote: post #503
sumedh wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The benefit is the science, nothing else matters Even if that science helps not so friendly countries like Russia?

OpenAI at this point must be literally #1 target for every single big spying agency in whole world. As we saw previously it doesn't matter much if you are top notch ai researcher, if 1-2 millions of your potential personal wealth are in stake this affect decision making (and probably would mine too). How much of a bribe would it take for anybody inside with good enough access to switch sides and take all the golden e…

I'm a very weird person with money. I've basically got enough already, even though there are people on this forum who earn more per year than I have in total. My average expenditure is less than €1k/month.

This means I have no idea how to even think about people who could be bribed when they already earn a million a year.

But also, if AI can be developed as far as the dreamers currently making it real hope it can be developed, money becomes as useless to all of us as previous markers of wealth like "a private granary" or "a lawn" or "aluminium cutlery"[0].

[0] https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/51115/did-napole...

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#885

Post by ninininino »

foofie wrote: post #805
habosa wrote: post #716

Regardless of who is right here, I think the enormous egos at play make OpenAI the last company I’d want to develop AGI. First Sam vs. the board, now Elon vs. everyone … it’s pretty clear this company is not in any way being run for the greater good. It’s all ego and money with some good science trapped underneath.

> First Sam vs. the board, now Elon vs. everyone Elon Musk is renowned for being an attention seeker and doing these stunts as a proxy to relevance. It's touring Texas borders wearing a hat backwards, it's messing with Ukraine's access to starlink alongside making statements on geopolitics, it's pretending that he discovered railway and the technology for digging holes in the ground as a silver bullet for transportat…

When you describe it, it sounds a lot like an average Hacker News commenter.

Enjoys hearing themselves speak so they can't help themself but to share a speculative idea or opinion on something they have little familiarity with.

High tolerance for being part of the out-group or sharing unpopular takes.

Placing logic (or what is logical by their own judgment) above all else including social niceties.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#886

Post by [deleted] »

leereeves wrote: post #403
pama wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don’t understand why you think their initial motives were a facade. They have always been trying to get to AGI that will be useable by a large fraction of society. I am not sure this means they need to explain exactly how things work at every step along the way or to help competitors also develop AGI any more than Intel or Nvidia had to publish their tapeouts in order for people to buy their chips or for comp…

At one time their mission statement said: > OpenAI is a non-profit artificial intelligence research company. Our goal is to advance digital intelligence in the way that is most likely to benefit humanity as a whole, unconstrained by a need to generate financial return. Since our research is free from financial obligations, we can better focus on a positive human impact. That's obviously changed to "let's make lots of…

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#887

Post by smoldesu »

qarl wrote: post #882
edgyquant wrote: post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does “train AGI” even mean dude

It means to run the back-prop algorithm to train neural networks to solve the problem(s) of AGI. Dude.

Unless the problem-in-question is Adjusted Gross Income, I don't think you're talking about a well-defined issue in the first place. That's kinda the problem; even half-definitions like "meets or exceeds human performance in all tasks" doesn't specify what those tasks are or what human performance represents.

In other words, targeting "AGI" is a ill-defined goalpost that you can move anywhere you want, and shareholders will be forced to follow. Today it's about teaching LLMs to speak French, next week they'll need 7 billion dollars to teach it to flip pancakes.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#888

Post by tim333 »

chjj wrote: post #72

I find it very strange that OpenAI would post this in the middle of a lawsuit. Shouldn't all of these emails come out in discovery anyway? Publishing this only benefits OpenAI if they're betting on the case never reaching discovery. It seems like they just want to publish very select emails which paint a certain picture. Also, DKIM signatures are notably absent, not that we could verify them anyway since the emails a…

I'm guessing they'll come to some sort of out of court settlement before it gets to trial.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#889

Post by qarl »

smoldesu wrote: post #887
qarl wrote: post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means to run the back-prop algorithm to train neural networks to solve the problem(s) of AGI. Dude.

Unless the problem-in-question is Adjusted Gross Income, I don't think you're talking about a well-defined issue in the first place. That's kinda the problem; even half-definitions like "meets or exceeds human performance in all tasks" doesn't specify what those tasks are or what human performance represents. In other words, targeting "AGI" is a ill-defined goalpost that you can move anywhere you want, and shareholde…

GOOD GRIEF. You're right, AGI is not well defined. But it is perfectly well defined for the purposes of this conversation.

Working in this space (however you want to say it) costs a lot of money. Everyone knows this. You nitpicking definitions does not change that.

Post reply on HN