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U.S. students will take the SAT online

npr.org

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Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#81

Post by ahahahahah »

Eldandan wrote: post #36
autoexec wrote: post #18

I'd rather go into a testing center and use someone else's device than infect my own system with whatever spyware they'll insist students install to try and prevent cheaters.

> try and prevent Yeah, good luck with that. If there's one thing remote teaching during covid taught me it's that you can't stop someone from cheating during an online assessment.

How is that experience relevant? Students aren't taking the test remotely, they are taking it in a controlled test center, just possibly with their own device.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#82

Post by gnicholas »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #72
gnicholas wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true for adaptive tests that operate on a per-question basis. What I have read of the new SAT is that it operates at a session level. So if you do well on the entire first session, you get a harder version of the next session on that topic (reading or math). Students should still be able to use the technique you mention to identify hard questions and save them for last.

> What I have read of the new SAT is that it operates at a session level. So if you do well on the entire first session, you get a harder version of the next session on that topic (reading or math). That is positive. I've seen issues with adaptive tests not being resilient to accidents and brain farts: if a kid fat-fingers the response to a question early in the test, they may never get the computer to give them ques…

> If the SAT is session-based, each session needs to be large enough that a single question can't tank the whole thing

I think each session is either half or a third of the test, for that subject. There could actually be more than two versions of the later session, to ensure that a student who makes a mistake or two isn't prevented from getting a relatively high score.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#83

Post by dylan604 »

saagarjha wrote: post #73
dylan604 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the math competitions I participated would penalize for skipping around. You were awarded +5 for correct answers and -4 for incorrect or skipped questions. It was not uncommon for negative scores. In one test, any stray marks were also marked as incorrect. No erasing, no changing a 7 to a 9, or anything was allowed. The questions leaned toward an increasing difficulty, but there could something very difficult…

I don’t see how this is any different from a normal test? If you skip a question or get it wrong the penalty is you don’t get any points for it.

As stated: "You were awarded +5 for correct answers and -4 for incorrect or skipped questions."

Answer question 1 correctly: +5 Skip question 2: -4 Answer question 3 correctly: +5 Net score: +6

If skipped were just ignored, the net score would be +10.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#84

Post by gnicholas »

goryramsy wrote: post #64
AustinDev wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if they'll have a software based 'anti-cheat' but you could be completely undetectable using this method: HDMI out into splitter from graphics card or tablet, whatever. Use secondary box to ingest video and spit out answers on an alternate display.

They have a ‘secure environment’ but the testing app ‘Bluebook’ is also available for download for practice tests and even to the general public. They have a chromeOS PWA, a Mac Universal app, and a Windows version. I can also personally attest that the app will run perfectly happy inside a Windows virtual machine, even inside the ‘secure testing mode’, as this is how I personally took the 11th grade PSAT a few month…

So what you're saying is someone could record their screen the entire time, with no one the wiser? It would be tricky to use any external programs because the Bluebook app might be able to detect that it's not in focus, and other students/proctors could see something else on the screen.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#85

Post by dylan604 »

ghaff wrote: post #80
dylan604 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm shocked at how laissez-faire we've gotten for college entrance exams, to the point that they stopped requiring SAT altogether, but are starting to bring it back. there's a lot of things they've done is head scratching. i loved when they changed the scores so that your result from 10 years prior suddenly become a lower result so people had to know when you took the test to properly weight the result. The laissez…

Who is looking at your SAT score from 10 years ago?

If I compared my SAT score my child's, that would easily compare past the 10 years. If I compare my score to a Millennial or younger.... Lots of ways to compare a score. You're putting yourself in a box. You should really try not doing that.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#86

Post by gnicholas »

goryramsy wrote: post #58
RheingoldRiver wrote: post #19

tbh I'm most interested by this: > "Today's students, they do a lot of their living digitally, they do a lot of their learning digitally and they do a lot of their test taking digitally," says Priscilla Rodriguez, who oversees the SAT for the College Board, the organization behind the test. How do kids work out math problems these days? Do they draw equations with their finger on a tablet/phone? Tablet pen on tablet?…

As a current high school student who will be taking the digital SAT this March, I can assure you that paper is alive and well both in the classroom and in testing. I don’t love the new digital testing system, and I see it as a failure of their system that students can no longer self pace through the test.

Is this change motivated by issues regarding self pacing? I hadn't heard that. Good luck with your upcoming test!

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#87

Post by goryramsy »

gnicholas wrote: post #84
goryramsy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a ‘secure environment’ but the testing app ‘Bluebook’ is also available for download for practice tests and even to the general public. They have a chromeOS PWA, a Mac Universal app, and a Windows version. I can also personally attest that the app will run perfectly happy inside a Windows virtual machine, even inside the ‘secure testing mode’, as this is how I personally took the 11th grade PSAT a few month…

So what you're saying is someone could record their screen the entire time, with no one the wiser? It would be tricky to use any external programs because the Bluebook app might be able to detect that it's not in focus, and other students/proctors could see something else on the screen.

Yes. A virtual machine specifically bypasses any on-device protections, protections which the terms of service indicate they have. However, I think the primary deterrent to cheating here would be as you mentioned the proctor and the other students.

To get around this, I theorize a more subtle overlay could be fashioned (imagine some sort of screen reader that speaks chatGPT-generated answers through the provided earbuds). However, at that point you could spend your time studying for the test in the first place.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#88

Post by goryramsy »

gnicholas wrote: post #86
goryramsy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a current high school student who will be taking the digital SAT this March, I can assure you that paper is alive and well both in the classroom and in testing. I don’t love the new digital testing system, and I see it as a failure of their system that students can no longer self pace through the test.

Is this change motivated by issues regarding self pacing? I hadn't heard that. Good luck with your upcoming test!

>Is this change motivated by issues regarding self pacing? I think that to the Collegeboard, the change to digital was to make it easier to distribute and easier to take (digital, shorter time). However, I think that this has some unintended consequences in how it will limit student freedom to self-pace, and the possibility of unjust scores if the student does not make the qualifying 'second stage' difficulty on the adaptive part.

>Good luck with your upcoming test!

Thanks for the kind words! When I heard that the test would be digital, I rushed to sign up for a paper section, and was lucky enough to get a slot (and a good score). I'm only now taking the digital because my school is offering it on campus, and that's just too convenient to pass up.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#89

Post by goryramsy »

gnicholas wrote: post #23
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17

In the noughties, at my Bay Area high school, students had a microphone wired up to their cell phone to someone they paid outside to Google answers, who was watching a feed of stills relayed via MMS every few seconds from a camera hidden in their hoodie. (Or, alternatively, the room was pre-bugged.) I wonder if colleges will begin differentiating between at-home and trusted-facility scores.

The article doesn’t indicate that students will be allowed to take the SAT at home, does it? Test centers and high schools is all I saw mentioned.

Can confirm that yes, it is testing center/school campus testing day only.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#90

Post by goryramsy »

gnicholas wrote: post #60
screamingninja wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed; this will further devalue these standardized tests when the results cannot be fully trusted and stop correlating with academic success.

How will this devalue the test? The only way in which the test is easier is that it's shorter, so students who lose steam toward the end will perform somewhat better. But this shorter test is dynamic, so it will still be able to assess students fairly, at all levels. In truth, it could even open the door to allowing for a higher ceiling, by offering even harder questions to students who score super well on earlier po…

Would not 'losing steam' on a long test be indicative of motivation and also be part of the test? Remember, the test is a lot more than the questions; the test is also about pacing and focus.
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