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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't the EU force the removal of those requirements? Apple will keep playing games to make alternative stores uncompetitive and keep away unwanted developers.

I think 8 was intended to stop that sort of thing, but maybe Apple thinks it doesn't apply? 8. The gatekeeper shall not require business users or end users to subscribe to, or register with, any further core platform services, as a condition for being able to use, access, sign up for or registering with any of that gatekeeper’s core platform services listed pursuant to that Article.

You are probably right, and now I wonder if this doesn't also apply to the standard Apple developer program.

I have not read the DMA but in the gatekeeper section of the official website the Core platform services listed are AppStore, iOS and Safari. Let's suppose that you single out iOs, why should I sign up something about AppStore to develop apps?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#522
post #406
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that Gruber occasionally has some interesting insight but it’s often hard to take him seriously these days — he’s effectively an unofficial PR outlet for Apple. (Fun fact: he co-created Markdown with Aaron Swartz) Edit: Swartz not Schwartz

It's a sad evolution. Gruber's blog is entitled Daring Fireball and in his early blogging days in the '00s he was in fact pretty daring and posted a lot of criticisms of Apple. Over time he had so thoroughly assimilated himself into the Apple way of thinking that he seldom notices whatever Apple is doing wrong.

He now gets exclusive 1 on 1 interviews with Apple execs and the blog is a full time job.

You got to shill to pay the bills.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#523
post #419
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 12. The gatekeeper shall apply fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory general conditions of access for business users to its software application stores, online search engines and online social networking services listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9). Apple don't get to deny access to their main competitor in this space just as a show of force. That is not fair, reasonable or non-discrimina…

Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. Non-discriminatory doesn’t mean they have no grounds to terminate Epic’s developer accounts, and Epic is continuing to make themselves look untrustworthy by trying to publicly and explicitly shank Apple. Spotify is also trying to shank Apple in all the same places Epic is, but they also didn’t go behind Apple’s back to deceive the prior review process in con…

These words have a specific, narrow meaning and your laymans impression is the opposite of helpful in interpreting them.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t quite understand why they happily subscribe to this model with Xbox PlayStation and Nintendo, but are adamant about getting their way with Google and Apple.

I don't think they happily subscribe to the console bullshit either - rather, the console vendors are next once Epic is done with Apple.

Consoles have managed to get special pleading in every law of this sort so far. It’s a Trumpian level of avoiding consequences.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#525
post #441
post #378

This is egregious and deeply disturbing behavior from Apple. At this point it feels wrong to own an iPhone. I'm at a loss for words describing what Tim and their leadership team has done to this company that I used to admire so much.

Couldn't agree more. I think the iPhone 15 Pro may be my last iPhone. Apple's entire reaction to the DMA has left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth. I used to think these were my devices, but Apple has been making it crystal clear lately that they consider them to be their devices. "We own the customer" is the new mantra of Apple. Maybe it was always that way, with the iPod and iTunes, etc. Thankfully I've never fe…

>> but Apple has been making it crystal clear lately that they consider them to be their devices.

This is a great point. The thing that sucks is the market is down to two main phone companies - Apple and Samsung. Unless you're on a carrier where some of the import phones like Xiomi or ZTE work, we're all stuck between two companies who increasingly are abusing their positions in the market because they can.

Apple seems not to care any more about customer sentiment and does things more so for the bottom line than anything else right now. I guess that's what we should've expected when the guy who ran the supply side of the company with an iron fist gets promoted to CEO.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#526
post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have any other companies announced credible plans for a competing app store? I'm at least not aware of any, which would absolutely make Epic their main competitor. It is pretty hilarious how people think some US court judgement would have any relevance on EU anti-trust regulation.

I think you're confused how this works. Apple doesn't need a court judgement to terminate a contract. They can just do it if they believe terms have been broken. Epic sued them in the US to reverse this decision and the courts found in favour of Apple. The process in the EU starts the same way. And this is a basic contractual dispute seperate from the DMA which is why the many other parties have not also had their co…

How is that at all relevant to future litigation over the DMA, which is what this thread is discussing?

It sounds like you lost the thread, not GP

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#527

This will not fly in the EU. I am actually very annoyed about their behavior. My next phone will likely not be an iPhone. All the paid apps are subscription based now anyway, it's quite easy to switch.

Yikes, you might be disappointed:

https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/google-asks-judg...

I hear Huawei makes nice phones.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#528
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as new people are growing up, they're going to need their own phones, so there will always be a market. The same of course with many other consumer goods.

But not a growing market. You don't get a 27.27 P/E ratio by selling phones to the same fraction of the general population. Indeed, that's "the same as many other consumer goods", so go check valuations of Nestle or Proctor & Gamble or whatever. The point is that an Apple stock priced at a level commensurate with a static market would be a catastrophic loss of shareholder value.

I'd recommend looking at P/S, Gross Margin and Operating Margins. They're more robust measurement tools than P/E and Net Margin, because – unlike Net Income (Earnings) – Revenue, Cost of Revenue and Operating Expenses are not accounting magic.

Today, Apple trades at 6.94 Price/TTM Sales per Share. P&G trades at 4.7.

Apple's TTM Gross Margin and TTM Operating Margins are 45% and 30.7%.

P&G's are 50% and 22%.

Apple's TTM Operating Margin is 1.395x of P&G's, and their P/S is 1.476x of P&G. This is the explanatory variable for the higher P/S – higher operating efficiency. Which makes sense because their blend of revenue includes services and insurance, not just high-margin physical products.

IDK the point you're trying to make, because these companies have essentially the same multiples today. Apple's market cap is higher because their TTM revenue is $386B and P&G's is $84B. But their key ratios are not so far apart.

I wrote all this up to show you the perils of P/E comparisons... before realizing that Apple and P&G actually have essentially identical P/E valuations (~26-27). In this instance, there's not a lot of peril, because they're both in a similar phase of corporate life: operating as late-stage growth companies surfing the wave separating innovation from profit-maximization for as long as they can – where generating income is important (so net income is not hovering around zero) but not the end-all/be-all (there're still expectations of YoY revenue growth).

Besides, Apple's customer and revenue composition is also not at all static, and you'd understand this if you read their earnings reports. They are not a dam that's waiting to burst, in spite of some people willing them to be. On the contrary, they've never been stickier or more mass-market than they are today.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#529
Wondering how this affects Apple employees. Back in the day, working for Apple seemed cool. (Pirate flags on building etc).

Previously MSFT used to be (maybe they've turned that around?) the most hated tech company (becz of their very aggressive attitudes to competitors especially Netscape).

One thing they didn't FU and is represented by the infamous sweaty Balmer video [0] of him shouting "Developers, developers, developers", is pissing of people who build on their platform.

Well Apple seems to have topped that with this and other malicious compliance shenanigans in the EU.

I can't every imagine developing an iOS/native app on that platform going forward.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#530
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. I think the iPhone 15 Pro may be my last iPhone. Apple's entire reaction to the DMA has left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth. I used to think these were my devices, but Apple has been making it crystal clear lately that they consider them to be their devices. "We own the customer" is the new mantra of Apple. Maybe it was always that way, with the iPod and iTunes, etc. Thankfully I've never fe…

What you gonna use tho? I've been degoogling and pooling most of services like email to iCloud for a while now. Should I just get rid of smartphone altogether?

There are other options.

I switched last year to a slightly older Android phone running Graphene OS and have been using that but have realized there are drawbacks to doing that.

Depending on what carrier you have, you can also check out some of the other Chinese imports that are competing well with Samsung and Apple. A lot of people I know are just using a personal cloud storage with their phones and just offloading their stuff there which is pretty easy to set up. Hell, even Microsoft OneDrive is easy to set up syncing with. iCloud is just one solution for backup and storage these days.

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