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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#351

Post by Jensson »

Despegar wrote: post #337
jsnell wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 12. The gatekeeper shall apply fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory general conditions of access for business users to its software application stores, online search engines and online social networking services listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9). Apple don't get to deny access to their main competitor in this space just as a show of force. That is not fair, reasonable or non-discrimina…

This will be another issue determined by EU courts, but Apple is not justifying it as a show of force. They're justifying it based on Epic's prior breach of contract and statements they've made. I think based on the record, courts will side with Apple.

Why would a 4 year old breach of contract warrant a ban today instead of 4 years ago? The trigger was that Epic criticized Apple, that doesn't seem like a warranted reason to ban someone even if they did something bad 4 years ago.

Also since the DMA bans arrangement that Epic breached before, there is no reason to suspect that the EU account will breach anything new now, I really doubt EU will let this slide.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#352

Post by causal »

bevekspldnw wrote: post #31
retskrad wrote: post #3

Why are investors seemingly blind to the fact that Apple is fighting tooth and nail to protect their App Store revenue (while looking like jackasses in the court of public opinion and pissing off regulators and their relationship with developers) because if the App Store money in their pocket dries up, all hell breaks loose because all of their hardware products are no longer growing. The stock will crash and the exe…

I think the cracks will start to show the longer big apps don’t come to Vision Pro. Apple has spent the last decade pissing off developers and partners, and just when they need them the most - during the fragile time of getting an entire new platform off the ground - they are doubling down on being assholes. Every single review I’ve seen mentions that Netflix and YouTube aren’t on Vision Pro. One of the biggest appli…

Apple themselves seem to forget that a huge selling point for the iPhone/iPod Touch was video games. Seeing those bright flashy games rendering on such a beautiful screen in the palm of your hand- it blew everything else out of the water.

Social media eventually took over as the killer apps, but for a while it was Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja on everyone's phone.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#353

Post by plussed_reader »

ynniv wrote: post #181

Isn't Apple providing side loading for customers in Europe now? Sure, Apple is being petty, but I thought this is was what Epic asked for. Can anyone ELI5 this one?

I would think this is a money game where it will force Epic to become a European developer/entity instead of just an American developer, to access the DMA market.

More hoops and more BS is entirely on brand for Apfel in this exercise.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#354

Post by beeboobaa »

hizanberg wrote: post #18

If I had a Customer that spent years relentlessly complaining about my Company, I know I wouldn't want to have them as a Customer. It does present an interesting question on whether a Company can be forced to have a bad actor as a Customer, I guess this will be decided in the lawsuits to come.

Then you shouldn't position yourself as a gatekeeper. I also don't want to pay taxes, but have to comply with the law anyway.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#355

Post by lelandfe »

layer8 wrote: post #334
hizanberg wrote: post #18

If I had a Customer that spent years relentlessly complaining about my Company, I know I wouldn't want to have them as a Customer. It does present an interesting question on whether a Company can be forced to have a bad actor as a Customer, I guess this will be decided in the lawsuits to come.

The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Imagine if everyone wanting to publish a web app would have to be a customer of the respective browser vendors. Everyone complains about Google and Mozilla and Safari and Edge. Luckily, that doesn’t prevent us from having our web ap…

Publishing a Chrome browser extension more-or-less requires being a customer of the Chrome Web Store. There are plenty of other examples, folks tend to give Playstation/Xbox/Switch stores in these conversations as well.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#356

Post by ben_w »

BudaDude wrote: post #120
droopyEyelids wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both sides are authoritarian. One is a private company with more money than most countries, one is an economic union nominally representing the people of many countries. I don't know where I fall on this issue personally, but siding with Apple is probably more authoritarian.

People defend Apple like its the underdog. Apple has been Goliath for almost a decade. Apple under Tim Cook is more about making money than it is about making the best product.

I'm old enough to remember when they were the underdog.

I still find it weird that people spent the last 5 years complaining about practices that started when they still were an underdog, and which were applauded at the time, and which don't even fully apply now to all developers anyway.

But you're right, they're not underdogs any more.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#357

Post by SteveNuts »

Jensson wrote: post #121
SteveNuts wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are talking about the US's first ammendment. Then the "freedom of speech" argument is even more irrelevant, in my mind.

Companies can't fire you for unrelated speech in most of Europe, their laws doesn't protect you as much from governments but they protect speech significantly more against private corporations. So just because US freedom of speech is limited to government doesn't mean that applies everywhere.

I still don't see how that is relevant at all between Apple and Epic...

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#358

Post by swman »

layer8 wrote: post #334
hizanberg wrote: post #18

If I had a Customer that spent years relentlessly complaining about my Company, I know I wouldn't want to have them as a Customer. It does present an interesting question on whether a Company can be forced to have a bad actor as a Customer, I guess this will be decided in the lawsuits to come.

The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Imagine if everyone wanting to publish a web app would have to be a customer of the respective browser vendors. Everyone complains about Google and Mozilla and Safari and Edge. Luckily, that doesn’t prevent us from having our web ap…

Then they should just not publish for iOS lol.

Don’t like it? Don’t publish to it.

As a consumer I want and like the tight restrictions apple puts on the App Store.

It’s not like users can’t purchase stuff without paying the 30% premium added by developers to offset the apple tax. Just go to the website and buy there. And save the 30%.

My parents who are older use iPhone. They don’t have to wade through trash like android play store. Most apps are good in the iOS store.

If epic wants kids to buy more stuff have their parents pay the 30% premium. If your kid is glued to the phone I’m sure you enabled that and can continue enabling it. Sorry not sorry.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#359

Post by fngjdflmdflg »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #34
andersa wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their terms are not relevant, Apple has no authority over the DMA.

so if I set up my own app store with nothing but apps designed to scam people, Apple has to allow me to do it?

My guess is that since fraud is presumably illegal in the EU, scam developers are not protected by the DMA. But I don't know EU law and didn't read the full text of the DMA although I did read some of the English version a while ago,

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#360

Post by Jensson »

mckn1ght wrote: post #350
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't really have anything to do with licensing. There are laws that prohibit businesses from e.g. refusing customers on the basis of race or sex and it doesn't matter if you're a restaurant or a hardware store or a flower shop.

That's true, but is there any reason to believe Apple is acting in such a discriminatory fashion against a protected class of citizen?

This is a different set of laws, different set of protected things that you aren't allowed to discriminate or retaliate against.
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