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Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

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Re: Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite: Is it really "Complex"? Or did we just make it "Complicated"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubaX1Smg6pY If you're interested in kids + computers + education, this 1955 Technology in Education House Committee Meeting is a surprisingly great watch, and has Kay alongside Seymour Papert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwsQn1Rs-4A

1995, not 1955.

Ha! Thanks for the correction. Comment's no longer editable.

Re: Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

#32
post #2

I heard of Alan Kay via Steve Jobs's intro of the iPhone [1], but otherwise know little about him - can anyone recommend other Alan Kay talks/essays/books? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQKMoT-6XSg&t=10m2s

He actively answers questions on Quora and those answers come in a format (short length - though his are unusually well thought out - and narrow focus) that is easy to browse.

I think Quora is "a poor imitation of old static text media" that's difficult to browse and not very accessible, since it takes so much clicking and waiting to open up "more" buttons and follow replies and threads, and is impossible to easily print, or just scroll, skim, and search through, so I collected Alan Kay's answers, some discussion we had, plus some more discussion with David Rosenthal (who developed NeWS with James Gosling), here:

"Alan Kay on “Should web browsers have stuck to being document viewers?” and a discussion of Smalltalk, NeWS and HyperCard:

https://donhopkins.medium.com/alan-kay-on-should-web-browser...

>Alan Kay answered: “Actually quite the opposite, if “document” means an imitation of old static text media (and later including pictures, and audio and video recordings).”

Also here's a collection of HyperTIES discussions from Hacker News (including some discussion with Ben Shneiderman about why hypertext links are blue):

https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hac...

Re: Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

#33
post #2

I heard of Alan Kay via Steve Jobs's intro of the iPhone [1], but otherwise know little about him - can anyone recommend other Alan Kay talks/essays/books? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQKMoT-6XSg&t=10m2s

My favorite: Is it really "Complex"? Or did we just make it "Complicated"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubaX1Smg6pY If you're interested in kids + computers + education, this 1955 Technology in Education House Committee Meeting is a surprisingly great watch, and has Kay alongside Seymour Papert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwsQn1Rs-4A

[deleted]

Re: Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

#34
post #2

I heard of Alan Kay via Steve Jobs's intro of the iPhone [1], but otherwise know little about him - can anyone recommend other Alan Kay talks/essays/books? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQKMoT-6XSg&t=10m2s

From the sibling link, I'd highlight:

Alan Kay: A powerful idea about teaching ideas at TED (2007) https://tinlizzie.org/IA/index.php/Alan_Kay:_A_powerful_idea...

Alan Kay: Normal Considered Harmful (2009) https://tinlizzie.org/IA/index.php/Alan_Kay:_Normal_Consider...

Back to the Future of Software Development (2003) https://tinlizzie.org/IA/index.php/Back_to_the_Future_of_Sof...

All of the STEPS reports - I especially like appendix E in:

https://tinlizzie.org/VPRIPapers/tr2007008_steps.pdf

> Appendix E: Extended Example: A Tiny TCP/IP Done as a Parser (by Ian Piumarta)

> Our first task is to describe the format of network packets. Perfectly good descriptions already exist in the various IETF Requests For Comments (RFCs) in the form of "ASCII-art diagrams". This form was probably chosen because the structure of a packet is immediately obvious just from glancing at the pictogram.

> If we teach our programming language to recognize pictograms as definitions of accessors for bit fields within structures, our program is the clearest of its own meaning. The following expression cre- ates an IS grammar that describes ASCII art diagrams.

> (...) We can now define accessors for the fields of an IP packet header simply by drawing its structure.

Re: Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

#35
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he elaborates on how concepts and ideas and schooling are misleading by nature quite a bit in the talk, though if he says that sentence i haven't gotten to it yet. (i've seen him say it elsewhere) https://youtu.be/dZQ7x0-MZcI?t=8m33s 'our minds are like theaters. (...) we treat our beliefs as reality. that is the worst thing about human beings. and these theaters are tiny; we can only think of a few things at once, i…

It is hard to imagine a discovery so profound as banging 2 rocks together. Why would you do it? Where are todays rocks?

i have some in my head, do you want some?

Re: Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

#36
post #5

Wonderful as ever. Kay demonstrates an emulator of Sketchpad. Anyone know if it's been shared anywhere?

Also very curious about this. I’ve been slowly building one myself and would happily give up if another good one already exists. Tried searching the web and can’t find it.

Re: Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

#37
post #11
post #4

The idea of computing as the shared stage to reflect our own intelligence is really what sticks out to me as the best way to frame what interacting with a computer means. It's not new but Alan did a great job of motivating and framing it here. Thanks for posting this great reminder that what we use as computers today are still only poor imitations of what could truly be done if we can transport our minds to be more d…

A first-class programming language (not an LLM) to talk to the computer's OS along with a rich library is the most important missing component IMO. Humans communicate mainly with language and no OS provides this in a satisfactory way for the average user. The result is users mostly clicking on signs to choose among predetermined tasks, like monkeys in a lab.

There are things about human language that are fundamentally at odds with effective communication with a computer (or engineering in general).

One example is ambiguity. Every human language has faculties for ambiguity, which is crucial in many human interactions and relationships. The ability to make implicit requests or suggestions while maintaining plausible deniability is valuable, even in situations that are non-adversarial.

In contrast, when communicating with an OS or engineering a mechanical device, ambiguity is a negative and it's crucial to use language that is deterministic.

There is a very real degree to which people are only capable of thinking clearly about complex systems to the degree they are comfortable with tools such as mathematics and programming that can be used to unambiguously describe them.

Re: Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

#38
post #2

I heard of Alan Kay via Steve Jobs's intro of the iPhone [1], but otherwise know little about him - can anyone recommend other Alan Kay talks/essays/books? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQKMoT-6XSg&t=10m2s

My favorite: Is it really "Complex"? Or did we just make it "Complicated"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubaX1Smg6pY If you're interested in kids + computers + education, this 1955 Technology in Education House Committee Meeting is a surprisingly great watch, and has Kay alongside Seymour Papert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwsQn1Rs-4A

[deleted]

Re: Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

#39

I wish we had a popular operating system for end users like ourselves that was “live” all the way down. It’s unfortunate we’ve been stuck with Windows, Mac, and Linux only

I have the same dream. A part of me wishes Richard Stallman set out on making a Lisp OS instead of making a Unix clone, but this was the mid-1980s and thus I understand the technical limitations and the social environment of the time. The 1990s could’ve been a better time; workstations and commodity PCs were powerful enough to run an entire Lisp or Smalltalk operating system, and there would’ve been substantial interest in such a system. Imagine had we ended up with a free, open source Lisp or Smalltalk OS running on the Pentium and PowerPC machines of the era as an alternative to Linux and the BSDs. I think this would’ve been an easier foundation to develop a FOSS desktop instead of the X11/KDE/GNOME/Wayland situation we have today.

But the dream isn’t dead. If only I had more free time…

Re: Alan Kay's talk at UCLA – Feb 2024 [video]

#40
There are sound reasons why no substantial system in common use is coded in Smalltalk. Kay could have spent the decades since his time at PARC figuring out why, and remedying them.

One of the reasons is that O-O is just one of several important ways discovered to organize software. Any big enough problem will have places for each. Specialization is for insects.

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