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OpenAI and Elon Musk

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Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#511

Post by yellow_lead »

zarathustreal wrote: post #460
TheAlchemist wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Musk can't sink any lower at this point, and his stans will persist. You sure about that ? For now they are largely looking away (and boy it's hard !) from his 'far right' adventures. But it was just reported that he met with Trump. And it's pretty clear that if Trump is elected and does cancel EV subsides as he says he will do, Tesla is dead and he knows it. So now, we have both of those guys, having something eac…

Just a word of advice regarding the effect of associating with Trump: don’t make the mistake of thinking everyone holds the same opinion as you

The effect of sucking up to someone who previously said this about you might be even worse:

"When Elon Musk came to the White House asking me for help on all of his many subsidized projects, whether it's electric cars that don't drive long enough, driverless cars that crash, or rocketships to nowhere, without which subsidies he'd be worthless, and telling me how he was a big Trump fan and Republican..."

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#512

Post by gandutraveler »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #75
Jensson wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon makes plenty of companies, him making an AI company that he was in control of doesn't look bad or strange at all.

I was talking about his public image - 'founder' of Tesla, doing everything for the love of humanity etc. It's all bullshit, and these emails show it again. He is an extraordinary businessman of course - but everything he does, he does for money and power - mostly coming from government subsides btw. Until recently though, he managed to make most believe that it was to save the planet and the humanity.

In his own biography the author mentions how Elon did the hostile takeover of Tesla.

He can't work with CEOs who are smarter than him.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#513

Post by SeanLuke »

uncomputation wrote: post #70
Reubend wrote: post #13

Their evidence does a nice job of making Musk seem duplicitous, but it doesn't really refute any of his core assertions: they still have the appearance of abandoning their core mission to focus more on profits, even if they've elaborated a decent justification of why that's necessary to do. Or to put it more simply: here they explain why they had to betray their core mission. But they don't refute that they did betra…

> they don't refute that they did betray it They do. They say: > Elon understood the mission did not imply open-sourcing AGI. As Ilya told Elon: “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...” Whether you agree with this is a different matter but…

This claim is nonsense, as any visit to the Wayback Machine can attest.

In 2016, OpenAI's website said this right up front:

> We're hoping to grow OpenAI into such an institution. As a non-profit, our aim is to build value for everyone rather than shareholders. Researchers will be strongly encouraged to publish their work, whether as papers, blog posts, or code, and our patents (if any) will be shared with the world. We'll freely collaborate with others across many institutions and expect to work with companies to research and deploy new technologies.

I don't know how this quote can possibly be squared with a claim that they "did not imply open-sourcing AGI".

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#514

Post by fragmede »

WalterBright wrote: post #482
fragmede wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven't all failed. I hear about REI quite a lot. Rainbow Grocery is quite popular in SF. I hear good things about Organic Valley. Equal Exchange is in Massachusetts. It's popular to bank at a credit union instead of a bank. The NCBA maintains a list of several thousand collective/coop businesses. https://ncbaclusa.coop/

I was using collective in the sense of being a commune. Sorry about not being clear.

Communes haven't all failed. There are a number of them that continue to exist to this day. That the rest of us haven't been forced into living in one of them doesn't mean they don't exist. Portland has a bunch of co-living co-housing communities that are thriving.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#515

Post by pests »

gitaarik wrote: post #359
advael wrote: post #113

Like most airing out of drama, this doesn't really materially change anything aside from making everyone involved look extremely bad But also, all entities involved looked bad already to observers who weren't so deeply rooting for them already that nothing would change their minds, so this is basically tabloid fodder drama in terms of importance as far as I can tell

Well, isn't it good that the public learns more about the bad stuff they're doing?

Bad stuff? What bad stuff?

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#516

Post by intended »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #473
intended wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- To me, the teams I work with and everyone handling content moderation. / Rant / Oh God please let these things be bottle necked. The job was already absurd, LLMs and GenAI are going to be just frikking amazing to deal with. Spam and manipulative marketing has already evolved - and thats with bounded LLMs. There are comments that look innocuous, well written, but the entire purpose is to low key get someone to do a…

>And in case someone comes up with some brilliant edge case - Does it generalize to a billion+ people ? The answer is curation, and no, it doesn't need to scale to a billion people. maybe not even a million. The sad fact of life is that most people don't care enough to discrminate against low quality content, so they are already a lost cause. Focus on those who do care enough and build an audience around them. You as…

I get you. That’s sounds more like membership than curation though. Or a mashup of both.

But yes- once you stop dropping constraints you can imagine all sorts of solutions.

It does work. I’m a huge advocate of it. When threads said no politics I wanted to find whoever made that decision and give them a medal.

But if you are a platform - or a social media site - or a species.?

You can’t pick and choose.

And remember - everyone has a vote.

As good as your community is, we do not live in a vacuum. If information wars are going on outside your digital fortress, it’s still going to spill into real life

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#517

Post by yellow_lead »

Leary wrote: post #3

I guess Sam Altman finally somehow found Ilya Sutskever after saying he didn't know where he was and whether he was still working at OpenAI [1] [1] https://officechai.com/startups/sam-altman-is-unsure-if-ilya... .

Your source never says he didn't know where he was. That's a bit hyperbolic.

> with Sam being unsure of whether Sutskever is still working at OpenAI even 8 weeks after the entire incident

He wasn't missing/found, maybe negotiations were ongoing.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#518

Post by Nevermark »

elif wrote: post #56
Reubend wrote: post #13

Their evidence does a nice job of making Musk seem duplicitous, but it doesn't really refute any of his core assertions: they still have the appearance of abandoning their core mission to focus more on profits, even if they've elaborated a decent justification of why that's necessary to do. Or to put it more simply: here they explain why they had to betray their core mission. But they don't refute that they did betra…

>they may be right that open sourcing AGI would lead to too much danger. I think this part is proving itself to be an understandable but false perspective. The hazard we are experiencing with LLM right now is not how freely accessible and powerfully truthy it's content is, but it is precisely the controls upon it which are trying to be injected by the large model operators which are generating mistrust and a poor und…

> it is precisely the controls upon it which are trying to be injected by the large model operators which are generating mistrust

I would prefer things were open, but I don’t think this is the best argument for that

Yes, operators trying to tame their models for public consumption inevitably involves trade offs and missteps

But having hundreds or thousands of equivalent models being tuned to every narrow mindset is the alternative

I would prefer a midpoint, I.e. open but delayed disclosure

Take time to experiment and design in safety, etc. also to build a brand that is relatively trusted (despite the inevitable bumps) so ideologically tuned progeny will at least be competing against something better, and more trusted, at any given time

But the problem of resource requirements is real, so not surprising that being clearly open is challenging

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#519

Post by gitaarik »

pests wrote: post #515
gitaarik wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, isn't it good that the public learns more about the bad stuff they're doing?

Bad stuff? What bad stuff?

Well, you said it made them look bad. Or did you mean that they aren't doing anything bad but are only making it look bad for each other?

Edit: sorry, I meant the parent said that. But I guess you understand it now.

Edit 2: To be clear, the bad stuff:

- OpenAI not really being "open" in any way.

- Elon not really caring about that but just wanting to take revenge because they became successful without him.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#520

Post by ben_w »

Nursie wrote: post #481
ben_w wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those examples make sense, but what's this doing on your list? > chatbots that replace real-time human customer service but have none of the agency That seems good for society, even though it's bad for people employed in that specific job.

> That seems good for society, even though it's bad for people employed in that specific job. Why? It inserts yet another layer of crap you have to fight through before you can actually get anything done with a company. The avoidance of genuine customer service has become an artform by many companies and corporations, its demise surely should be lamented. A chatbot is just another in the arsenal of weapons designed t…

Two things I disagree with:

1. It's not "an extra layer", at most it's a replacement for the existing thing you're lamenting, in the businesses you're already objecting to.

2. The businesses which use this tool at its best, can glue the LLM to their documentation[0], and once that's done, each extra user gets "really good even though it's not perfect" customer support at negligible marginal cost to the company, rather than the current affordable option of "ask your fellow users on our subreddit or discord channel, or read our FAQ".

[0] a variety of ways — RAG is a popular meme now, but I assume it's going to be like MapReduce a decade ago, where everyone copies the tech giants without understanding the giant's reasons or scale

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