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OpenAI and Elon Musk

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Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#111

Post by ilaksh »

chjj wrote: post #72

I find it very strange that OpenAI would post this in the middle of a lawsuit. Shouldn't all of these emails come out in discovery anyway? Publishing this only benefits OpenAI if they're betting on the case never reaching discovery. It seems like they just want to publish very select emails which paint a certain picture. Also, DKIM signatures are notably absent, not that we could verify them anyway since the emails a…

The court of public opinion might be more important in some ways than any real court. People have already begun judging OpenAI based on the lawsuit.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#112

Post by Jensson »

resonious wrote: post #97
magnio wrote: post #6

> Elon understood the mission did not imply open-sourcing AGI. As Ilya told Elon: “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...”, to which Elon replied: “Yup”. Wow the most open OpenAI has ever been is when someone sue them. On the other hand, th…

Yeah seems pretty cut and dry. It'd feel pretty bad to see OpenAI doing what they're doing now after saying things like "My probability assessment of OpenAI being relevant to DeepMind/Google without a dramatic change in execution and resources is 0%."

He was right though, they did have a dramatic change in execution and resources the next couple of years when they prepared to sell out to Microsoft and that gave them a chance. Elon really gave them good advice there, even if it was snarky.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#113

Post by advael »

Like most airing out of drama, this doesn't really materially change anything aside from making everyone involved look extremely bad

But also, all entities involved looked bad already to observers who weren't so deeply rooting for them already that nothing would change their minds, so this is basically tabloid fodder drama in terms of importance as far as I can tell

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#114

Post by ilaksh »

baking wrote: post #51
endisneigh wrote: post #19

I'm surprised they would publish this honestly. Especially considering that they're in a lawsuit.

Probably didn't talk to a lawyer.

What is the actual justification for not discussing it openly? I know that is typical advice, but I am not sure it is correct advice for these types of situations anymore.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#116

Post by phire »

chjj wrote: post #72

I find it very strange that OpenAI would post this in the middle of a lawsuit. Shouldn't all of these emails come out in discovery anyway? Publishing this only benefits OpenAI if they're betting on the case never reaching discovery. It seems like they just want to publish very select emails which paint a certain picture. Also, DKIM signatures are notably absent, not that we could verify them anyway since the emails a…

If they just waited until discovery, it would be Musk's lawyers that control the narrative, choosing which parts of the emails to focus on publicly, which to ignore and what story to paint around it.

As you say, this way, they get to control the narrative. Nothing strange at all.

From what I can tell, Musk's lawsuit doesn't have a much of chance in the first place. I don't think he expects to win, it seems to be more a tool in Musk's own media push, and while I wouldn't bet on it, there is absolutely a chance it won't reach discovery.

I think OpenAI have quite wisely decided that the real battle here is the court of public opinion. They know it's possible to win the court case but lose in the eyes of the public. And they know that Musk has a lot of previous experience (and success) in the this battleground.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#117

Post by mac-attack »

mlsu wrote: post #93
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this shows Elon doesn't care jackshit about the lack of openness from OpenAI. He's just mad only that he walked away from a monumental success. Yup he's pretty transparently lying here. He committed to fund for $1B dollars. Then when they wouldn't make him CEO and/or roll the company into Tesla he refused his commitment after paying out only 4% of it. Claimed the company would fail and only he could save them (agai…

Whether it is Elon or Altman that controls it has nothing to do with how open or not openAI is. And it has become very clear that OpenAI is nothing but Microsoft in a trenchcoat. No matter his motives, I applaud this lawsuit. Who cares if his talk doesn't match his action? His action, here, is good.

[flagged]

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#118

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

Reubend wrote: post #13

Their evidence does a nice job of making Musk seem duplicitous, but it doesn't really refute any of his core assertions: they still have the appearance of abandoning their core mission to focus more on profits, even if they've elaborated a decent justification of why that's necessary to do. Or to put it more simply: here they explain why they had to betray their core mission. But they don't refute that they did betra…

> To some extent, they may be right that open sourcing AGI would lead to too much danger.

That's clearly self-serving claptrap. It's a leveraging of a false depiction of what AGI will look like (no ones really knows, but it's going to be scary and out of control!) with so much gatekeeping and subsequent cash they can hardly stop salivating.

No strong AI (there is no evidence AGI is even possible) is not going to be a menace. It's software FFS. Humans are and will be a menace though and logically the only way to protect ourselves from bad people (and corporations) with strong AI is to make strong AI available to everyone. Computers are pretty powerful (and evil) right now but we haven't banned them yet.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#119

Post by EMIRELADERO »

chjj wrote: post #90
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, DKIM signatures are notably absent, not that we could verify them anyway since the emails are heavily redacted. What are you implying? Faking emails opens you up to libel. I doubt OpenAI is trying to add another lawsuit to their workload.

> What are you implying? I'm not implying anything. I'm pointing out a lack of openness on OpenAI's part.

Unless it's brought up as a point in court, actual exhibits in lawsuits don't have DKIM signatures either.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#120

Post by crayboff »

throwup238 wrote: post #99
elif wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they may be right that open sourcing AGI would lead to too much danger. I think this part is proving itself to be an understandable but false perspective. The hazard we are experiencing with LLM right now is not how freely accessible and powerfully truthy it's content is, but it is precisely the controls upon it which are trying to be injected by the large model operators which are generating mistrust and a poor und…

[flagged]

He means that he thinks the only reason why these generative AIs ever get info wrong and causing misinfo is because the businesses that write them are too woke and holding them back.
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