The amount of people that know nothing about Europe but still give their opinion on the matter is genuinely sad
EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'
51–60 of 189 posts
Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being "defence friendly" means also cultivating the mentality that lying in the trenches for your country/culture/values might be necessary. Forget arms industry or military budget as a percent of GDP. The main problem is that Europe lacks the fighting spirit (with some exceptions like Poland). Countries like Germany will fold / capitulate to any demands if they suffer thousands of casualties.
I lack fighting spirit, don't want to spend money for weapons and I'm not afraid of Russia (live in Germany). There is a lot of fear mongering. Ukraine should make a deal instead of sacrificing people without limits. So many people died, for loosing later. If they wait too long there won't be any deal.
> I lack fighting spirit, don't want to spend money for weapons and I'm not afraid of Russia (live in Germany).
Aren't those statements contradicting as at least two separate sets of ideas?
If you lack fighting spirit, you don't want to fight. So you should want more money spent on weapons, so that you don't have to fight. Aristotle said "if you want peace, prepare for war".
If you don't want to fight, you should be afraid of everyone who does: e.g. russia.
putin clearly said he wants to restore the old ussr borders. This means eventually taking eastern Germany. And then you just have to naively assume if he succeeds at that, he will stop at that. I mean, let's be honest, he can't possibly live that long to see his plan fully completed, but let's say he has successors continuing his work.
I know that there is this comfortable seemingly impenetrable boundary of NATO alliance: but recently Trump said he would invite putin to attack on NATO members that don't put enough GDP % into military spending (e.g. Germany), and new Slovakian government is significantly more prorussian (meeting with russia and Hungary).
In January 2022 experts almost unanimously said it would be ridiculous for russia to attack Ukraine.
Don't be afraid of russia, but also act to actually support your peace of mind.
Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
I lack fighting spirit, don't want to spend money for weapons and I'm not afraid of Russia (live in Germany). There is a lot of fear mongering. Ukraine should make a deal instead of sacrificing people without limits. So many people died, for loosing later. If they wait too long there won't be any deal.
And after you give up on Ukraine what's next? Georgia? Moldova? Estonia? Poland? Lithuania? More? They're all fair game for Russia are they? Russia will find your submissiveness very helpful.
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Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'
#54There was an incredibly stubborn post-Cold War "end of history" complacency in Europe that really should have ended after the annexation of Crimea in 2014. Instead it lasted until the full invasion in 2022. What's been starkly revealed since is that Europe is woefully unprepared to respond to any kind of aggression, and aside from France's nuclear weapons, wholly reliant on America. At some point you have to get seri…
I don't agree with your comment. Unpreparedness is one thing, but you paint a picture of weakness and reliance. Why are there no Dutch F-35s or French warships in Ukraine? Where are the British special forces? Let alone the non-NATO countries of Switzerland Austria, Cyprus, Ireland, Malta, and Sweden. Some NATO members have huge militaries, albeit with many NATO commitments, i.e. not even close to being utilized to t…
Well, the nuclear threat is no small threat. It's possibly humanity-ending. Specifically the nuclear winter.
It's amazing and I attribute it largely to American intelligence, how much russia was damaged with "only" a 10s advance on the Doomsday Clock (we're at 23:58:30 now).
Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'
#55Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'
#56There was an incredibly stubborn post-Cold War "end of history" complacency in Europe that really should have ended after the annexation of Crimea in 2014. Instead it lasted until the full invasion in 2022. What's been starkly revealed since is that Europe is woefully unprepared to respond to any kind of aggression, and aside from France's nuclear weapons, wholly reliant on America. At some point you have to get seri…
Actually, it should have ended even earlier, after Russian aggression on Georgia in 2008.
Was that when the Georgians caught the Russians by surprise by attacking Russia's protectorates?
Took the Russians quite a while to get their act together.
Are the aggressors usually caught on the hop?
Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
And after you give up on Ukraine what's next? Georgia? Moldova? Estonia? Poland? Lithuania? More? They're all fair game for Russia are they? Russia will find your submissiveness very helpful.
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> Domino theory nonsense.
It isn't theory. It's a practical understanding of who and what Putin and the Russia state are.
The practical reality is that Russia has been expanding by increments. First Georgia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War
Then Crimea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea
And now they're trying for more of Ukraine.
Submission and appeasement don't lead to good outcomes.
> why did they offer Ukraine a peace deal
Russia can end the war tomorrow. All Russia needs to do is get out of Ukraine. All of it. Simple to do, easy to achieve.
That's the best peace deal Russia can offer.
Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
And after you give up on Ukraine what's next? Georgia? Moldova? Estonia? Poland? Lithuania? More? They're all fair game for Russia are they? Russia will find your submissiveness very helpful.
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That "peace deal" would have required that Ukraine permanently recognize Russian sovereignty over Crimea and the Donbas (on top of other concessions).
This is why Russia is called "expansionist". Because it likes to expand its territory.
Before Boris arrived to scupper it.
That's not what happened. I know you read some snippet somewhere that made it sound like that's what happened. But simply put, you're being played. And that's not actually what happened.
Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'
#59Maybe now some of our European friends will start pulling their weight with respect to funding NATO.
Maybe they will build out their own military industry causing the US to no longer have a much larger technological capability than it actually pays for from its own GDP and face more competition in weapon sales.
This is already happening. Poland & South Korea entered into a significant deal last year. SK is working with Poland to build SK mil hardware in Poland, which iirc, is a first for them. There are speculations that this is SK breaking into the EU market for tanks & spg.
Drones are reshaping conventional war at unprecedented speeds. Many things need to be rethought. Big ticket items and air defense are notable examples.
Porcupine defense is likely the best strategy for deterrence. Taiwan and her allies should take note of what Ukraine has accomplished in the Black Sea.
Re: EU aims to shift European arms industry to 'war economy mode'
#60There was an incredibly stubborn post-Cold War "end of history" complacency in Europe that really should have ended after the annexation of Crimea in 2014. Instead it lasted until the full invasion in 2022. What's been starkly revealed since is that Europe is woefully unprepared to respond to any kind of aggression, and aside from France's nuclear weapons, wholly reliant on America. At some point you have to get seri…
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