This seems like a bad move for Microsoft. Few people see them as the horrible monopolistic evil empire anymore, but it's not so long ago that people saw them that way. They got in significant legal trouble just for bundling a browser with Windows. Blocking alternative browsers, or subjecting them to restrictions MS considers too crippling for their own browser seems like a good way to scare off developers and users alike.
It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it
41–50 of 234 posts
Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Post-lastly: there's the simple point that Firefox for Windows is an actual product that could be shipped near-immediately. There is no Firefix for iOS, precisely because Apple has never allowed it. I think the broad point is valid though: Apple's platform control is no more morally justified than Microsoft's. And at least in the abstract they deserve equal scorn. But the specifics here are that Windows 8 on ARM won'…
What you're missing here is that Apple bans everyone equally while Microsoft does not. What I mean by that is the App Store doesn't discriminate on an individual basis. Apple is generally consistent in their "unfairness". Looking at what Microsoft is doing, their decision to restrict Firefox immediately struck me as an anti-trust monopoly issue. They're not restricting Firefox on the basis of some policy that applies…
> What you're missing here is that Apple bans everyone equally while Microsoft does not.
You could not have this more backwards. The fundamental issue that Metro apps cannot write to executable memory pages. This is a fundamental security feature of both WinRT and of iOS. Browsers download code off the Internet JIT compile it to native code and execute it. This is what Firefox needs to do. It's not like Windows 8 is checking for Firefox.exe and refusing to load it.
What Mozilla wants is an exception to the normal rules for applications on ARM Windows 8.
Microsoft makes exceptions for their own applications (Office and IE) but that's it. These are the same sort of exceptions Apple make for their apps on iOS.
Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Post-lastly: there's the simple point that Firefox for Windows is an actual product that could be shipped near-immediately. There is no Firefix for iOS, precisely because Apple has never allowed it. I think the broad point is valid though: Apple's platform control is no more morally justified than Microsoft's. And at least in the abstract they deserve equal scorn. But the specifics here are that Windows 8 on ARM won'…
What you're missing here is that Apple bans everyone equally while Microsoft does not. What I mean by that is the App Store doesn't discriminate on an individual basis. Apple is generally consistent in their "unfairness". Looking at what Microsoft is doing, their decision to restrict Firefox immediately struck me as an anti-trust monopoly issue. They're not restricting Firefox on the basis of some policy that applies…
They're not restricting Firefox on the basis of some policy that applies to everyone but singling out one piece of software.
What gives you that idea? The policies apply to every third party application on Windows-ARM.
Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it
#44I wonder how many people throwing opinions around this were "of age" in the early-to-mid 90s and thus remember what an unstoppable behemoth Microsoft was. This was a time when they had 95%+ of the desktop OS share and you basically couldn't run a home computer with Windows. This was the early days of Linux (IIRC in ~1994 I downloaded SLS running Linux 0.99.x onto ~30 floppy drives over a 2400 baud modem!). Macs were…
I was around and remember it well. Even if some of the HN community missed the OS wars, they've probably dealt with the consequences of Microsoft's OS monopoly - after killing Netscape, Microsoft allowed Internet Explorer to completely stagnate. More than 5 years passed between the release of IE6 and IE7. Anyone who spent late nights/weekends in the last half decade trying to get some web page to render properly in IE 6 has Microsoft's monopoly to thank for it. I don't love Apple's policies. But so far, they haven't been nearly as harmful.
Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it
#45Has MSFT given any justification on why they are banning Firefox from Windows 8? And why iOS doesn't allow FF too?
They're not banning it. They're just not allowing access to critical API functions for a JIT engine to Windows Marketplace apps. Only IE has access to it. Without these APIs then Firefox will run like a dog because it'll undue all the years that people have been working on optimizing Javascript engines.
Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Post-lastly: there's the simple point that Firefox for Windows is an actual product that could be shipped near-immediately. There is no Firefix for iOS, precisely because Apple has never allowed it. I think the broad point is valid though: Apple's platform control is no more morally justified than Microsoft's. And at least in the abstract they deserve equal scorn. But the specifics here are that Windows 8 on ARM won'…
What you're missing here is that Apple bans everyone equally while Microsoft does not. What I mean by that is the App Store doesn't discriminate on an individual basis. Apple is generally consistent in their "unfairness". Looking at what Microsoft is doing, their decision to restrict Firefox immediately struck me as an anti-trust monopoly issue. They're not restricting Firefox on the basis of some policy that applies…
You don't think Apple decided to restrict third party browsers so their browser "can have a leg up?" (Yes, yes, I know the answer will come back "a unified browser is a better user experience". And my response is: why not let the market make that call?)
That sounds awfully naive. Apple certainly does protect its turf (c.f. banning Google Voice after approving dozens of VoIP apps) , and to argue otherwise is just silly.
Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it
#47I would like to take the time to point out that Opera has a browser on iOS http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/opera-mini-web-browser/id3637... (iTunes)
Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it
#48My feeling here (ex-MSFT employee, so maybe biased one way or another) is that Mozilla is going after the soft underbelly of Microsoft, because they can.
Mozilla is already locked out of iOS and they have failed at getting Apple to budge. If WinRT locks them out, they'll be locked out of two out of the three major tablet platforms (it's a safe assumption that WinRT will get some marketshare at least).
Microsoft is an easier target than AAPL - Win8 is still under development so it's still early days and the company has a history with various governmental organizations (the DoJ, the EU). My guess is Mozilla is attempting to rattle Microsoft into opening up Win8 to get Firefox to run. Or drum up enough press, get the DoJ to make a quote or two and really get Redmond to worry.
If I were Microsoft, I would hold my ground. Strategically, it makes a lot of sense to own the browsing experience e2e and I think Mozilla's case is weak given MSFT's lack of marketshare, the existence of Chromebooks, Boot2Gecko, etc.
Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it
#49I would like to take the time to point out that Opera has a browser on iOS http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/opera-mini-web-browser/id3637... (iTunes)
Opera Mini doesn't contain a rendering engine or JIT or...it's a glorified image viewer that lets the rendering be done on a remote server.
Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it
#50I wonder how many people throwing opinions around this were "of age" in the early-to-mid 90s and thus remember what an unstoppable behemoth Microsoft was. This was a time when they had 95%+ of the desktop OS share and you basically couldn't run a home computer with Windows. This was the early days of Linux (IIRC in ~1994 I downloaded SLS running Linux 0.99.x onto ~30 floppy drives over a 2400 baud modem!). Macs were…
I do remember MS of the mid 90s and it's aura of invincibility, but in retrospect it sure looks like that aura was illusory (or highly temporary, which is really the same thing). Even apart from the antitrust suits it seems clear in hindsight, partly due to the examples that you mention, that the market was widening beyond MS's reach.
The fact they are losing the war does nothing to repair the damage they caused.