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European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

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Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#581

Post by dang »

jwr wrote: post #360

I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max. The whole touc…

(We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39600257)

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#582

Post by daniel_reetz »

modeless wrote: post #238
iforgotpassword wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even then, how do you find the A/C or volume control on a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road, without accidentally touching something else? You just can't feel your way to the volume knob. Sure, you are a responsible driver and would only do that at a traffic light or other completely safe situation, but I don't know how many accidents touch controls in cars already caused with less responsible dr…

Volume is on the steering wheel. A/C is automatic and I don't need to touch it the vast majority of the time. While driving the most I might want to do is adjust the temperature, and since it's not safety critical I can choose a convenient time. It's at the bottom of the screen so it is easy to do by grabbing behind the bezel and only requires a quick glance to align your thumb. In practice I glance at physical A/C c…

I think this is missing something fundamental. If it's too hot or cold, folks are distracted - from driving. Perhaps you are less distracted than most.

Yes, they can reassign buttons. But the core problem is distraction, which causes users to go to the touchscreen, which creates even further distraction by capturing their visual attention.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#583

Post by Kon-Peki »

Animats wrote: post #201
userbinator wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Touché! It's interesting how early vehicles were very different in their controls, but seemed to mostly converge and stabilise for a few decades, before again diverging and changing rapidly. The Model T (Ford) had a throttle on the steering wheel and 3 pedals, but not the ones you'd expect today: https://www.fordmodelt.net/images/ford-model-t-controls_smal...

> but seemed to mostly converge and stabilise for a few decades Due to regulation. The US Congress mandated the PRNDSL quadrant for automatic transmissions. (GM had PNDSLR, and people kept shifting into reverse by accident.)

Congress didn’t “mandate” it, they made it such that the federal government could only buy vehicles that used the PRND sequence for auto transmissions. If you don’t want any corporate welfare you can make your transmission shift in any order you feel like.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#584

Post by Nemi »

This is totally off topic and will likely get downvoted, but the topic of whether physical controls in a vehicle is a non-issue or critically important is the kind of conversation I want to have when interviewing a prospective employee. It conveys so much in so relatively little. It shows:

* Empathy for others

* The ability to place oneself in an imaginary situation when using something and project what it might be like for you and others using that thing in all kinds of situations

* Evaluate something objectively even when you have sunk costs (say if someone spent a lot of money on a Tesla or something)

* most importantly, the persons judgement. How they view this topic of whether physical controls are important or not shows basic judgement, or lack thereof. That translates over into SO many other areas of life. As an employer, it tells you everything you need to know about whether this person is going to be a good decision maker or someone you have to micro-manage their every decision.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#585

Post by jkestner »

oven9342 wrote: post #236
iforgotpassword wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even then, how do you find the A/C or volume control on a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road, without accidentally touching something else? You just can't feel your way to the volume knob. Sure, you are a responsible driver and would only do that at a traffic light or other completely safe situation, but I don't know how many accidents touch controls in cars already caused with less responsible dr…

People have already died because of the screens “The ship's user interface [touch screen] was found to have contributed to the sailors' confusion.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_S._McCain_and_Alnic_M...

ProPublica did excellent reporting on this: https://features.propublica.org/navy-uss-mccain-crash/navy-i...

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#586

Post by me_me_me »

vel0city wrote: post #560
me_me_me wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am talking about a use case that works for you but not others - due to preference, hardware limitations etc. My car can only turn AC on and off. What about me then?

I take it your AC controls aren't behind a touchscreen then? I'm mostly arguing having AC controls on a screen aren't that big of a deal, because chances are if they're on a touchscreen they're auto, and if they're auto you really shouldn't need to ever really mess with them while moving. The only real exception to this would be defrosters, but I do agree there should be a least a physical defrost toggle button.

Fair enough, I wouldn't mind controls behind the screen for stuff you wouldn't need on daily basis. But I feel like we already had it with early screens and infotainment.

Functionality that might be needed when you drive (fogging up, change audio src, increase temp) should have physical interface.

So if you have auto AC it could go behind the screen.

But what I am afraid is that cars are sold with premium features as upgrades. So features that are fine behind screen would suck in cheaper models. And when looking at what BS automotive industry is pushing now (subscription services for physical features that are present), I am not hopeful this would be addressed.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#587

Post by delecti »

llm_trw wrote: post #357
evanjrowley wrote: post #122

I am waiting for the day when mechanical keyboard enthusiasts finally put kailh hot swap sockets into a car's controls. Then we can have debates about whether car controls should be tactile, linear, or clicky. GMK keycaps for German cars. Japanese cars with Topre switches. Anime dye-sub keycaps on ricers. QMK firmware forked and re-written in MISRA-C. It would be grand.

Obviously clicky, you want to know when actuation has actually happened. Just like keyboards.

I hate clicky keyboards, because there's usually a pretty quick on-screen result from hitting the button, and you might press keys tens of thousands of times in a day. Love me some tactile.

But in a car when you might interact with controls a couple dozen times per trip? Absolutely clicky.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#588

Post by trgn »

freeAgent wrote: post #502
trgn wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's honking helping the commute?

It helps when people try to merge into the side of your car or when someone forgets to watch traffic signals after stopping at a red light.

> It helps when people try to merge into the side of your car

fair enough!

> when someone forgets to watch traffic signals after stopping at a red light

I dunno. If you wouldn't blow a horn while walking the sidewalk when inconvenienced, I don't think drivers should either. You're not the only two people on the street, there's other people around here and they don't need to be abused by impatient drivers. ymmv, ianal, etc.. of course.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#589

Post by trgn »

diggan wrote: post #492
trgn wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making the world a better place. 100% sincere. 99% of time there is absolutely no reason to honk. People only do it because the button is there and they're safely insulated from getting punched.

> 99% of time there is absolutely no reason to honk Could it also be that in different places, there are different expectations, and different environments that makes people use the honk for various purposes? I get that in the US it seems to mostly be a social signal of "fuck you", but in Spain where I mainly drive, I've avoided a couple of accidents by honking after seeing cars slowly coming close to my own car on t…

I've been in similar places. It's so awful. Really degrades city life.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#590

Post by freeAgent »

trgn wrote: post #588
freeAgent wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It helps when people try to merge into the side of your car or when someone forgets to watch traffic signals after stopping at a red light.

> It helps when people try to merge into the side of your car fair enough! > when someone forgets to watch traffic signals after stopping at a red light I dunno. If you wouldn't blow a horn while walking the sidewalk when inconvenienced, I don't think drivers should either. You're not the only two people on the street, there's other people around here and they don't need to be abused by impatient drivers. ymmv, ianal…

I don’t lay into the horn like a jerk when someone is inattentive to a traffic light. I just give a quick tap to get them to snap out of whatever it is they’re distracted by. I also wait at least a few seconds. Most people seem to appreciate this because they don’t want to block traffic, either.
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