Good. Now ban SUVs and other aircraft carriers on wheels, or tax them at 100% rate, every year.
European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
571–580 of 660 posts
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#572This vivid discussion really makes me want to see what Apple did come up with for the UI. I doubt they made it all touch screens. But Apple might have had one of the biggest influences on car UIs. After the iPhone came out all the car makers wanted to be cool as well and put them in?
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#573Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess I got the wording wrong because that's exactly what I meant.
The most dangerous situation I encountered was turning left across traffic from a stop.
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking about (and thought I wrote, but the downvotes say otherwise).
If your steering assist conks out just as you're trying to turn at slow speed you could end up heading into oncoming traffic, at an angle at least.
It's actually pretty dangerous, good thing you don't drive it any more.
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#574I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max. The whole touc…
I have been driving an ID.4 for almost three years by now. I consider much of what others criticize here in terms of UI, touch-sensitive buttons etc. to be „not great“ either but it did work for me. I didn’t really care to be honest.
What did not work for me was the re-charging experience on longer trips. I do not want to „subscribe“ to anything just to recharge my car in a reasonable amount of time. But even with a hypercharger it still takes way too long and without the „right“ subscription you feel like they steal your money from you. This is the worst from my POV when it comes to EVs, this is where they felt like inferior technology and business model to me as a consumer. Guess what, even though I was always a fan of EVs and hybrids (even drove three different models of Toyota Prius prior to my ID.4) my next car will be a traditional one (Hyundai Tucson to be precise).
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#575Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Obvious limitation is something like Maps and media I would love to see some data to see how dangerous it is to operate Maps and Media apps on a touch screen while operating a moving vehicle. This is data modern automakers should have access to. I suspect the answer is that it does reduce safety.
Nobody has access to that data, even if you're excluded it to extreme cases like "an at-fault crash happening as the user was manipulating the map software directly". We can't bridge the gap between that and accident reports. And that doesn't get into the more subtle cases, e.g. a crash that happens later due to an earlier loss of situational awarenesses. It's also hard to quantify the opposite. E.g. I sometimes have…
There are enough sensors in a car to know when a collision has occurred. The car is capable of capturing touchscreen use metrics. Bonus points if you can find metrics for the same region/timespan for cars with tactile controls. You can then do any year 1 statistics algorithm to see if using the touchscreen is correlated with collisions. Yes, this doesn't prove causation. A correlation is enough to raise the flag about a safety issue.
EDIT: A decent statistical analysis will also uncover if using the touch screen is negatively correlated with accidents -- if people that use maps in general are less likely to get into an accident. This again won't prove causation but would be of interest to the general public and regulators.
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#576Earlier quoted context omitted.
My car has no physical climate controls etc. I just use the voice controls. “Hey Google, set the driver’s side heated seat to one” “Hey Google, turn off the steering wheel heater”
Judging from how google subtitles my videos on youtube, this would look like a comic gag for most people.
In my other car, which adheres to the “buttons for nearly everything” philosophy, the steering wheel heater (for example) is down by the driver’s left knee, even using it via the touchscreen is probably safer.
Experiences with this sort of thing are subjective, but I’ve never had any problems with Google Assistant in the car.
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#577I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max. The whole touc…
I was in the market for a car, and initially really wanted a Tesla or VW / ID, but with no buttons, no dials, and on the Tesla additionally no parking sensors, wonky rain sensors combined with missing stalks and no straight-on speedometer, it quickly became clear to me these were all potential usability and safety issues. I found a nice Toyota instead with a button for every function, and everything just works.
May I ask which Toyota. Did you go with their EV model?
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#578Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the contrary, adding just "a few meters of cable" per each critical system, and adding separate sensors instead of using the same critical sensors would greatly increase complexity. Also so really underestimate the cabling and sensor needs for modern requirements. Having redundant bus and redundant sensors usable by multiple subsystems is a better way. Well, I have heard of power assist using a single simple poten…
Compared to classic hydraulic lines everywhere dedicated cables seem easy. Having to account for a DOS attack from a compromised head unit or some such just seems like a nightmare.
On one hand you are right, but only if we can ignore the highly increased risk of electric malfunction from the extensive traditional (non bus based) wiring. This was a common problem in the 1980s when electric gadgets became numerous, but no standard bus was used on many such cars.
To overcome this the plan back when I was working on that product was to use 2 system buses, one isolated internal for the safe critical sensor/control network, and one user facing untrusted bus, with a ECU designed to serve as a firewall basically.
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#579Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's weird that Tesla is being called out over the horn. In driver's ed they tell you to not to use your horn when you're annoyed at other drivers - only use it if there's an imminent danger to avoid a crash. But you better hope it works because if it doesn't, the airbag behind it explodes. ... I'm not sure Tesla improved the situation, but it definitely seems like the situation has room for improvement.
Exactly - you need to have quick access the horn in a safety critical use case, so it shouldn't be a small button you have to find among other small buttons. You should be able to mash the center of the steering wheel. >But you better hope it works because if it doesn't, the airbag behind it explodes. ... what? I had a car who's horn stopped working and the airbag didn't explode or go off.
Better hope it works to avoid the imminent danger.
If you hold your horn down trying to alert someone that you’re about the slam into them, your hand is going to be on the wheel as the airbag deploys.
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#580Earlier quoted context omitted.
The most dangerous situation I encountered was turning left across traffic from a stop.
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking about (and thought I wrote, but the downvotes say otherwise). If your steering assist conks out just as you're trying to turn at slow speed you could end up heading into oncoming traffic, at an angle at least. It's actually pretty dangerous, good thing you don't drive it any more.
A combination of whatever fiddling the mechanic did and making sure the fluid was topped off seemed to solve the issue. Also, it was a good, if somewhat old, car, and the mechanical steering was quite good. I was able to steer it without much difficulty at pretty much any speed even in no-power-steering mode.
But yes, I agree, unpredictable steering response is dangerous.