European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls • Hacker News Board

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#551

Post by a_gnostic » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:32 PM UTC

ack wrote: post #495

moogly wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Skoda have pretty sensible steering wheels still?

The Skoda I just rented in Portugal has real controls but they were really horrible. Even once I got used to their locations, I regularly made something happened than I wanted. Rear windows open instead of front, etc. There's even a control for the digital dashpanel enticing one to play with the display while driving.

Had an old Chevy with similar problems. Ended up taking a Dremel to the rear window controls, a bit of roughness is all it took.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#552

Post by MR4D » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:36 PM UTC

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #460

kevincox wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The machine was rather difficult to operate. For years radios had been operated by means of pressing buttons and turning dials; then as the technology became more sophisticated the controls were made touch-sensitive--you merely had to brush the panels with your fingers; now all you had to do was wave your hand in the general direction of the components and hope. It saved a lot of muscular expenditure, of course, bu…

Can people please stop implementing ideas that were intended as satire?

No. That's the only way we know we're in a simulation. Reality could never be this stupid.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#553

Post by jval43 » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:43 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #360

I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max. The whole touc…

I was in the market for a car, and initially really wanted a Tesla or VW / ID, but with no buttons, no dials, and on the Tesla additionally no parking sensors, wonky rain sensors combined with missing stalks and no straight-on speedometer, it quickly became clear to me these were all potential usability and safety issues.

I found a nice Toyota instead with a button for every function, and everything just works.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#554

Post by cruffle_duffle » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:43 PM UTC

seltzered_ wrote: post #504

netsharc wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like rental, but per minute. Look up car2go, although maybe they're no longer in business in the US, i. Europe they changed their brand name. It's like those scooters you can hire and leave (almost) anywhere, the benefit with a car is, if you park it idiotically, they can check that you were the last driver and forward the parking ticket to you.

Car2Go and Reachnow both ended in the US around 2020. There are some other carsharing services in the US in some major cities (e.g. gig car share in sf/seattle), but I would argue overall there's less carsharing now compared to 8-9 years ago. Partly the age demographics have changed, ridesharing (uber/lyft) rose in popularity, and carsharing in the us has had its share of profitability issues. Peak carsharing in the…

I think cheap uber/lyft ate their lunch originally but what sealed it was the introduction of dockless bikes & scooters.

Of course those smart cars didn't really help either. They were great for parking and stuff but damn did it feel like driving a gocart. My foot was either at full throttle or no throttle.

...I do miss it though.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#555

Post by vel0city » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:44 PM UTC

Toutouxc wrote: post #545

vel0city wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't change the AC while I'm in motion. All my cars have auto AC so I rarely touch them even as the temperature changes outside. I probably adjust the AC a handful of times a year. I'd rather not waste a lot of dashboard space on buttons that practically never get pressed, I'd rather have my map be even bigger and easier to quickly glance at and have more space to browse my media collection while stopped. I don't…

> I don't understand how so many people have come across cars with seemingly terrible auto AC systems. > Whenever I rent a car it's always infuriating having to constantly muck with the AC system. Am I missing something or do these not make sense together?

I guess I should have phrased it as "chosen to own cars with seemingly terrible AC systems". Theromostatic controls are pretty cheap to implement, its not like you'd need some high-end extreme luxury car to have that feature be normal.

If the AC controls are on a touchscreen, chances are they're auto. If they're auto, you probably shouldn't have to mess with them at all while moving.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#556

Post by graphe » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:48 PM UTC

Silasdev wrote: post #529

kevincox wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The machine was rather difficult to operate. For years radios had been operated by means of pressing buttons and turning dials; then as the technology became more sophisticated the controls were made touch-sensitive--you merely had to brush the panels with your fingers; now all you had to do was wave your hand in the general direction of the components and hope. It saved a lot of muscular expenditure, of course, bu…

Did Douglas Adams travel in time.... this is scarily accurate!!! My BMW keeps turning off the volume if I wave at anything in the direction of the touchscreen. There is a little infrared camera near the roof that can sense hand-gestures and turn volume up or down ... and lots of other things. Douglas Adams so spot on I want to cry!

You did buy a car without a dipstick, what do you expect? BMWs are fun to drive and are horrible too maintain. I remember helping someone because the radiator melted a reservoir tank, such a terrible design I never looked at another one!!

They should need forced to make dipsticks but the EU doesn't care when it's a European company. The EU is more anti American companies than actually caring.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#557

Post by gspencley » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:51 PM UTC

modeless wrote: post #238

iforgotpassword wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even then, how do you find the A/C or volume control on a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road, without accidentally touching something else? You just can't feel your way to the volume knob. Sure, you are a responsible driver and would only do that at a traffic light or other completely safe situation, but I don't know how many accidents touch controls in cars already caused with less responsible dr…

Volume is on the steering wheel. A/C is automatic and I don't need to touch it the vast majority of the time. While driving the most I might want to do is adjust the temperature, and since it's not safety critical I can choose a convenient time. It's at the bottom of the screen so it is easy to do by grabbing behind the bezel and only requires a quick glance to align your thumb. In practice I glance at physical A/C c…

> While driving the most I might want to do is adjust the temperature, and since it's not safety critical I can choose a convenient time.

I'm not sure how much I agree that temperature is not safety critical. It's relative for sure, less safety critical than breaks or transmission, but it can still impact safety in certain situations. In the city when you have a lot of red lights and stop signs, it's not a big deal to wait for the next stop. But on a free-way when you've got a ways to go before you can make a stop then uncomfortable temperature can create a distracted or nervous driver situation. I suppose you could pull over on the shoulder if it were that big of a deal, but even that isn't the safest thing to do on freeways and it's recommended to only do that if you're making an emergency stop.

In my opinion this shouldn't even have to be a big deal. The only reason we're even discussing it is because car manufacturers are moving from tactile buttons to touch screens. People are accustomed to working these types of auxiliary systems without stopping and historically have been able to do so without taking their eyes off of the road. People aren't going to stop doing those things because now they have to use a touch-screen.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#558

Post by andix » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:52 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #360

I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max. The whole touc…

I think it’s really hard to get good UX by setting up some simple rules. In the end we need good UX, however this is done.

For things like lights or wipers the solutions from the past are quite good I would say.

For things like the Tesla turn signal buttons I would actually prefer to have both buttons and the traditional stalk. Depending on the situation one is superior of the other.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#559

Post by quitit » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:53 PM UTC

jolmg wrote: post #549

quitit wrote: post #548

It is mind-boggling that we are at this point. I understand that reducing buttons has a cost-saving and reliability benefit, but it's unfathomable that core and frequently used controls are reduced to touch screens while emphatically stating that a driver must not be distracted by the screen while driving. I've lost all trust in car manufacturers that do this, it's not just wrong, it's obviously dangerous.

Reliability benefit?

Physical buttons can break and be permanently affected by moisture.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#560

Post by vel0city » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:54 PM UTC

me_me_me wrote: post #523

vel0city wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about a single car, I'm talking about several different makes and models over the last couple decades. Works on my machine implies it's something special about that one device. My experience has been auto AC has worked fine with several different car models from several different makers across the last 24 years of car manufacturing.

I am talking about a use case that works for you but not others - due to preference, hardware limitations etc. My car can only turn AC on and off. What about me then?

I take it your AC controls aren't behind a touchscreen then?

I'm mostly arguing having AC controls on a screen aren't that big of a deal, because chances are if they're on a touchscreen they're auto, and if they're auto you really shouldn't need to ever really mess with them while moving. The only real exception to this would be defrosters, but I do agree there should be a least a physical defrost toggle button.