Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

521–530 of 660 posts

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#521

Post by foobarian »

hef19898 wrote: post #396
Vespasian wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just my own thought but I believe they were under immense pressure to achieve similar (or even some) margins with their very first broad market BEV, as they are getting with comparable ICE models. As a car the MEB siblings are not bad at all and by now the software is fine I hear, but they cut just to many ergonomic corners instead of accepting the costs of getting started in a slightly different market segment.

Funny thing is, Skoda is doing better (no real news so), despite using the same platform. What definitely didn't help, was putting a self-declared Tesla fanboy in the CEO seat. Only Tesla is Tesla, no other brand can get away with Tesla stuff. Should have been clear for VW, as they lived of marketing to sell overpriced cars for decades.

I think you're right, this is not a financial decision but cargo culting at its best. Just look at what happened to phones after iPhone 1 came out.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#522

Post by DrScientist »

What I can't understand is why, when so much money is spent on the design of new car models, such bad decisions were ever made in the first place.

Did not one person say- "you know this is a really bad idea?"

'Touch screen' in this context an oxymoron - as it can't be operated solely by touch - you need to be looking at it.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#523

Post by me_me_me »

vel0city wrote: post #513
me_me_me wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is akin to it works on my PC so not an issue

I'm not talking about a single car, I'm talking about several different makes and models over the last couple decades. Works on my machine implies it's something special about that one device. My experience has been auto AC has worked fine with several different car models from several different makers across the last 24 years of car manufacturing.

I am talking about a use case that works for you but not others - due to preference, hardware limitations etc.

My car can only turn AC on and off. What about me then?

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#524

Post by franga2000 »

PcChip wrote: post #474
franga2000 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you have a more sensible car than many. I was recently in one with really dumb automatic AC that needed adjustment very often, the AC settings were in a menu behing two clicks, there was no convenient landmark to orient my hand without looking, the temperature slider was very small and dense needing high precision and the temperature text was rather small. And the steering wheel buttons are, of course,…

What is carsharing, and how does it work insurance-wise?

The kind of carsharing I use is company-run, so it's basically just rental, but billed by the minute and with parking spots scattered all over the city. I imagine they have a very expensive fleet insurance in the background.

There are also a handful of "peer-peer" carsharing systems where you let other people use your car and I have no idea how insurance would work there.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#525

Post by alistairSH »

grndn wrote: post #505
alistairSH wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it work if you have a thick (non-American or non-RP) accent? Serious question. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMS2VnDveP8

As one of the comments pointed out, it's even funnier if you turn on the automatic captions :)

Exactly. I have a mild accent, but my dad still has a thick brogue. Would a car understand him? Not if it's using the same algorithm as YT's captioning.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#526

Post by stronglikedan »

flatline wrote: post #519
modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

My Jeep Wrangler has a physical volume knob that may or may not elicit a change in volume when turned within the first 30 seconds of starting the car. Which can be literally deafening if you had on e.g. a podcast at 75% volume when you turned the car off and it turned back on to the radio. Some of these things need a dedicated circuit.

The 2022 Acura MDX has that too, but it's not a "may or may not", it just doesn't. Thankfully they fixed it in the 2023 model, but I still don't understand why it's not fixed in the 2022 model since it's obviously software and both get OTA updates.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#527

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #224
modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

But even then, how do you find the A/C or volume control on a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road, without accidentally touching something else? You just can't feel your way to the volume knob. Sure, you are a responsible driver and would only do that at a traffic light or other completely safe situation, but I don't know how many accidents touch controls in cars already caused with less responsible dr…

My car has no physical climate controls etc. I just use the voice controls.

“Hey Google, set the driver’s side heated seat to one”

“Hey Google, turn off the steering wheel heater”

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#528

Post by tialaramex »

otherme123 wrote: post #413
snowpid wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country are you talking about? Airbags are mandatory because of the UN. https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/197... and Euro NCAP chooses the cars indepently: https://www.euroncap.com/en/about-euro-ncap/the-car-selectio... Or is it possible that you mix up the US regulation on a thread about EURO NCAP?

Your first link doesn't prove nothing, it has nothing to do with airbags being mandatory. According to this: https://autoily.com/when-did-airbags-become-mandatory/ , they are only mandatory in the US (my fault, sorry). Some countries, like India, are requiring ONE front airbag since 2019. The core of my message stands: car makers go way ahead the mandates. I don't recall any safety technology that ever banned or dela…

What happens with these non-mandatory programmes is that a manufacturer can give the programme money to buy their standard equipment vehicle and then the programme will buy the appropriate car from a dealer. The vast majority of vehicles are purchased this way.

This way they can't manipulate the vehicles being tested. The easiest way for your new 4954 model to get excellent NCAP scores is to make the actual 4954's people can buy from a dealer all good enough for excellent NCAP scores, the NCAP will just buy one and test it and it should score well because it's a 4954.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#529

Post by Silasdev »

kevincox wrote: post #405
jwr wrote: post #360

I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max. The whole touc…

> The machine was rather difficult to operate. For years radios had been operated by means of pressing buttons and turning dials; then as the technology became more sophisticated the controls were made touch-sensitive--you merely had to brush the panels with your fingers; now all you had to do was wave your hand in the general direction of the components and hope. It saved a lot of muscular expenditure, of course, bu…

Did Douglas Adams travel in time.... this is scarily accurate!!! My BMW keeps turning off the volume if I wave at anything in the direction of the touchscreen. There is a little infrared camera near the roof that can sense hand-gestures and turn volume up or down ... and lots of other things.

Douglas Adams so spot on I want to cry!

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#530

Post by berkes »

squarefoot wrote: post #296

I couldn't agree more. Touch screen aren't cool, they're a necessary inconvenience where there's no room for physical controls (ie, phones and tablets) and can have some uses in multimedia systems, but using them for driving related or critical controls in cars is both stupid and dangerous: latency and lack of feedback could distract the driver attention away from the road, then a single hit on the screen and the use…

> they're a necessary inconvenience where there's no room for physical controls

Hear, hear!

and yet, SpaceX thought it was a good idea to make the controls in their space ships mostly touchscreens as well. Utterly insane, IMHO.

Post reply on HN