Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 660 posts

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#361

Post by Hamuko »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #318
modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

>However, the absence of a physical speed control for the windshield wipers is the single worst design flaw of Teslas. The fog lights are much worse

Highly doubt it considering that fog lights have very limited use compared to the windshield wiper.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#362

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

fransje26 wrote: post #322
jay_kyburz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought you were going to post this one https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23702560

I did not watch the video linked in the previous post (yet!), but a fun fact is that for the F-35, they decided it was a great idea to use touchscreens instead of push buttons, and they are finding out the hard way it was.. ..not the best of choices. It turns out that not having tactile feedback means that pilots are pressing the wrong button about 20% of the time. Even more so under g-loads.. https://nationalinteres…

In the first version of The Design of Everyday Things, by Don Norman, he has a photo of the control panel for a nuclear reactor.

There are two large levers, that, if I remember correctly, actuated the control rods. They were right next each other.

The engineers replaced the two identical knobs, with handles from beer taps (Michelob and Heineken, IIRC). This differentiated the two controls.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#363

Post by mgoetzke »

OvbiousError wrote: post #313
sensanaty wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas don't have physical blinker switches?? That is pure lunacy, are you telling me they're touchscreen activated now?

From the article: > Tesla is probably at greatest risk here, having recently ditched physical stalks that instead move the turn signal functions to haptic buttons on the steering wheel.

those 'haptic' buttons are real buttons. with a click feel and everything. they are great (tested in highland model 3)

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#364

Post by mgoetzke »

modeless wrote: post #242
tmikaeld wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> …Teslas. Or at least it was, until they removed the physical turn signal controls. The turn signals wasn’t removed, they moved them to the steering wheel as physical buttons. Which ofc isn’t optimal, because you turn it…

I would call them virtual buttons rather than true physical buttons, as they are capacitive touch buttons that don't depress and are missing a defined physical boundary. Granted, they are fixed in place and don't move. Except that, as you point out, they do move...

the new model 3 highland buttons feel and behave exactly like physical buttons.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#365

Post by mgoetzke »

threeseed wrote: post #33
userbinator wrote: post #16

But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? IMHO the driving UX peaked in the 1960s, and was largely unchanged into the 2000s, until touch screens started taking over. Compare: https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads... https://images-stag.…

I think the issue with the horn is referring to the Tesla Model S. And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and windscreen wiper buttons. Which in a safety situation was difficult to locate and press.

I a safety situation by drivers used to old style cars ? but it doesnt matter, even Model S has it in the middle now again. good choice

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#366

Post by lm2s »

sensanaty wrote: post #306
modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

Teslas don't have physical blinker switches?? That is pure lunacy, are you telling me they're touchscreen activated now?

On recent models they removed the stalks and put blinker buttons in the steering wheel.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#367

Post by amenhotep »

Slartie wrote: post #326
ClikeX wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volume control is a very commonly used feature in cars. That should definitely should be a physical button. I drive a Lynk & Co (reskinned Volvo XC40) and it has a rotary knob on the center terminal for fan speed, temperature, and volume. Which are all within reach without me having to look or lean over. There's also a volume button on the steering wheel next to my thumb, which is great. The only annoying part is tha…

But you are not legally required to use the volume control regularly in order to drive safely. You are not even legally required to have any kind of volume control in your car. You are legally required to have and use the turn signals. You are legally required to have and use the windshield wipers (because you need to be able to see the road when it's raining). Same is true for the horn and hazard lights - those are…

You're looking at this from the wrong angle. We don't really want to mandate physical volume controls, because they're necessary. We want to ban touchscreen volume controls, because they're unsafe. If Tesla want to deal with this by having no volume control, that's fine! Good luck to them.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#368

Post by trompetenaccoun »

Hamuko wrote: post #361
CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, the absence of a physical speed control for the windshield wipers is the single worst design flaw of Teslas. The fog lights are much worse

Highly doubt it considering that fog lights have very limited use compared to the windshield wiper.

Depends very much on where you live. Some people need them every other day, some may never use them at all. Certainly not "limited use" when you're in a mountainous region with regular fog.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#369

Post by donatj »

nly wrote: post #282
userbinator wrote: post #16

But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? IMHO the driving UX peaked in the 1960s, and was largely unchanged into the 2000s, until touch screens started taking over. Compare: https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads... https://images-stag.…

I've been driving for 15 years and only ever used my horn once.

In fifteen years you’ve never been stuck behind someone stopped at a green light?

You’ve never had to give someone a “hey don’t back into me” toot in a parking lot?

You’ve never seen your friend Ricky, on the sidewalk?

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#370

Post by ojosilva »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #318
modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

>However, the absence of a physical speed control for the windshield wipers is the single worst design flaw of Teslas. The fog lights are much worse

How about the voice commands for these? ("Wipers 1-slash-4"). I just got my first Tesla, MYLR, and even though it's annoying not having the stalks given the rain sensor is absolute junk the voice command seems to work 98% of the time. The voice command is activated from a button on the steering wheel - it may require a network connection though. I haven't tried the fog lights, it may not have a command, but there's apparently a shortcut with the left stalk where you pull or push and a quick light menu comes up - 2 clicks instead of 1 but seems reasonable - I could never find my fog lights quickly enough on most of my previous cars anyway.

My only concern with the wipers would be for an emergency, ie the street washers drive by and suddenly I have no visibility, but for those situations I have the button on the left stalk that fires the wipers on demand.

Post reply on HN