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European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

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Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#351

Post by l33tman »

franga2000 wrote: post #278
modeless wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volume is on the steering wheel. A/C is automatic and I don't need to touch it the vast majority of the time. While driving the most I might want to do is adjust the temperature, and since it's not safety critical I can choose a convenient time. It's at the bottom of the screen so it is easy to do by grabbing behind the bezel and only requires a quick glance to align your thumb. In practice I glance at physical A/C c…

It seems like you have a more sensible car than many. I was recently in one with really dumb automatic AC that needed adjustment very often, the AC settings were in a menu behing two clicks, there was no convenient landmark to orient my hand without looking, the temperature slider was very small and dense needing high precision and the temperature text was rather small. And the steering wheel buttons are, of course,…

Avoiding to get into a "which car brand is best", I'll just say that I think there is simply a difference in the "DNA" of the car brands for how they approach the driving experience. It takes many many years and iterations and care about driving a car to produce a good car UX and some brands you can just immediately conclude that the CEO or the product managers don't care about driving and probably have never driven the specific model themselves, while in some brands you really feel they are a "driver's car".

This goes for tech in general and not just cars btw :)

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#352

Post by RedShift1 »

letitbeirie wrote: post #272
threeseed wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue with the horn is referring to the Tesla Model S. And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and windscreen wiper buttons. Which in a safety situation was difficult to locate and press.

It's weird that Tesla is being called out over the horn. In driver's ed they tell you to not to use your horn when you're annoyed at other drivers - only use it if there's an imminent danger to avoid a crash. But you better hope it works because if it doesn't, the airbag behind it explodes. ... I'm not sure Tesla improved the situation, but it definitely seems like the situation has room for improvement.

In danger imminent situations you might not have the time or mental capacity to think about buttons.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#353

Post by rvba »

sundvor wrote: post #237
modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

Tesla wiper? Just push the wiper button on the left stalk and you can cycle through the speed settings with the left funky switch (multi function button) in addition to the on screen display options that then pop up. Very easy to do. Also this: https://youtube.com/shorts/3eKcDOHVZWc?si=-jL4o4Bhu-2y0ibj Doesn't cover the left multi function button feature after short pressing the wiper button. (Model 3, 2022, Australi…

Controls should be standardized across cars.

Imagine that someone rents a car and is tired + every manufacturer has their own konami code, or secret button to start the wipers. That's how accidents happen.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#354

Post by eterevsky »

I'm generally sympathetic to this (I have a Tesla and I wish they used traditional turn signal stalks). But is the set of prescriptive rules really the way to evaluate the safety of the car? Wouldn't some statistics like the number of crashes per 1m km be more informative?

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#355

Post by hankman86 »

gnegggh wrote: post #265

I’ve had the model 3 highland since it came out and still not used to it. Definitely a safety issue. Turn signals and vipers including speed should be physical and not a non tactile button. Love the car otherwise but kinda just want it with a screen that’s 1/3rd the size, CarPlay and speed and such in front of the wheel. Never used Netflix or any of that stuff. Controlling music via your phone app is easier anyway, s…

Poor usability and the generally spartan interior are the reasons why I did not even look at Tesla and ordered a BMW i4 instead. Sadly, they too have moved functions like the aircon into the touch screen.

But at least you still get a driver dash with head up display, proper indicator stalks, real leather seats and quality materials throughout.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#356

Post by egorfine »

modeless wrote: post #238
iforgotpassword wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even then, how do you find the A/C or volume control on a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road, without accidentally touching something else? You just can't feel your way to the volume knob. Sure, you are a responsible driver and would only do that at a traffic light or other completely safe situation, but I don't know how many accidents touch controls in cars already caused with less responsible dr…

Volume is on the steering wheel. A/C is automatic and I don't need to touch it the vast majority of the time. While driving the most I might want to do is adjust the temperature, and since it's not safety critical I can choose a convenient time. It's at the bottom of the screen so it is easy to do by grabbing behind the bezel and only requires a quick glance to align your thumb. In practice I glance at physical A/C c…

> grabbing behind the bezel

so, physical control.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#357

Post by llm_trw »

evanjrowley wrote: post #122

I am waiting for the day when mechanical keyboard enthusiasts finally put kailh hot swap sockets into a car's controls. Then we can have debates about whether car controls should be tactile, linear, or clicky. GMK keycaps for German cars. Japanese cars with Topre switches. Anime dye-sub keycaps on ricers. QMK firmware forked and re-written in MISRA-C. It would be grand.

Obviously clicky, you want to know when actuation has actually happened. Just like keyboards.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#358

Post by ljm »

Slartie wrote: post #340
harry8 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volume control is pretty damn safety critical when the driver takes their eyes off the road to jab at the f&^king miserable touchscreen and accidentally wipes out your family. Sir Issac Newton wrote down the laws about piloting a couple of ton of steel some time ago. Very unlikely to be repealed. Every control that will be used by the driver for any purpose whilst the vehicle is in motion is safety critical.

That is true, but in that mind your kid in the back seat is safety-critical, so maybe we mandate no kids in the back? Or your wife next to you in the passenger seat, she could also make you remove your eyes from the road (happens quite a lot actually) - mandate no wifes in the passenger seat anymore? You need to draw a line, otherwise really anything in your car can be safety-critical, you just need to imagine the ri…

They were all physical buttons before touchscreens became the norm, so the slippery slope argument you’re making doesn’t really carry much weight.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#359

Post by donatj »

branko_d wrote: post #119
aurareturn wrote: post #4

Around 10 years ago, I started looking into buying a new car. I couldn't believe the number of cars that switched to touch controls even 10 years ago. It boggles my mind just how car makers thought it was safer/easier to have touch in a car while one is driving. I refused to buy any car that replaced physical buttons with touch controls 10 years ago and I still have this rule today. Then again, it also boggles my min…

> Then again, it also boggles my mind how car makers in the US continue to use flashing red lights as the turn signal instead of yellow lights. Technology Connections channel had a video about that a while back: https://youtu.be/O1lZ9n2bxWA?si=xKRgMFK1DFBrB3i0

I know Technology Connections complains about it all the time, but I don’t feel like he’s even made a case, he just asserts over and over “and we ALL agree it’s awful” as if he asserts it strongly enough it will become true.

Why is it a problem? How is a red blinker actually measurably worse than an amber one?

I have never had any sort of issue interpreting a blinking red taillight as turning? With red, you can more easily tell the direction of travel and the aesthetics of a single color are far nicer. I frankly don’t see the problem.

Commenter a couple levels up says you can’t see red blinkers in the sunlight? I don’t think that’s true on any measurable level, amber is a far closer match in hue to sunlight than red.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#360

Post by jwr »

I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max.

The whole touch cluster on the left of the steering wheel, just below the vent, is a disaster, too. If I want to check the temperature of the air that's blowing into the cabin, I end up accidentally turning off the lights, turning on rear antifog lights, and turning on defroster heating for the windshield. The next minute or so is spent trying to get everything back to normal.

The rule should be that everything in the car needs to be a physically actuated button, and touching those buttons without pressing them should only ever light them up or show help messages, never perform any action.

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