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Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

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Re: Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

#151

Post by gaius »

mgkimsal wrote: post #150
gaius wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I've worked on a 50T DB doing 800G of changes per hour, which was recoverable to any point in time. That's not even particularly big by today's standards.

and you dumped the entire 50terabytes every hour? The point above was that they should have been doing a db dump. that's not always the best way (or even possible) to deal with large data sets.

No, but why would you do that? It makes no sense when there are better backup strategies available (archived redo logs, hot standby, filesystem snapshots, etc etc).

Re: Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

#152

Post by yashchandra »

Good job Joshua. One thing for sure, I will never myself or suggest anyone else to work for Miso. It is simple. A job where you have long hours, mediocre pay but a great team/manager is a lot better than a good paying job with team/manager that are not looking out for you and will screw you at the first opportunity they get.

Re: Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

#153

Post by sbisker »

javajosh wrote: post #55

The world has slowly become spineless, and when someone like Josh Hwu shows a spine and stands up for what's right a rather large fraction of fellow programmers jump on him. Shameful! The CEO of Miso is an unethical egotistical person who doesn't even have the self-awareness to admit to his knee-jerk abuse of power (a mistake that many a young manager has made, myself included). The real story here is that fighting o…

Crap, accidentally downvoted. In too strong agreement to not apologize for the downvote and thank you for saying that.

Re: Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

#154

Post by rremoncake »

michaelochurch wrote: post #109
ww520 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the developer paid with his reputation. He actually gains reputation as someone who would stand up to injustice and unethical behavior. Of course unethical employers would hesitate to trust him but do you want to work for unethical employers?

He actually gains reputation as someone who would stand up to injustice and unethical behavior. I wish you were right, but you're not. For all the press about the "war for talent", there's never a good time to be a whistle-blower. Sometimes it is worth doing, because these kinds of stories are extremely common (read: there are a lot of bubble startups with shitty, unethical management) right now, but it's generally a…

If you guys could read the update I've posted in my blog I'd appreciate it. I cleared up a lot of assumptions you guys have been making. Most notably that I was fired due to this incident. I was not.

Re: Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

#155

Post by silentscope »

felideon wrote: post #126
silentscope wrote: post #41

They were both wrong. Any employee who leaves 10k behind didn't care enough about it in the first place. The fact that he forgot is huge. A company that talks about bonuses of that size with no legal contract didn't care enough about it to start with. The developer will pay with his reputation. Any employer who knows what happened will never fully trust him, except after a long working relationship. Miso will pay by…

> Any employee who leaves 10k behind didn't care enough about it in the first place. The fact that he forgot is huge. No, it's not huge. As I said in another comment, it's always awkward for me to have to go to a 'manager' and ask for money so I procrastinate on such issues. Maybe it was similar for him.

it's business brother. you're not asking to date his sister. you earned the money, go ask for it.

and procrastinating is just fine. but you don't QUIT without getting that kind of dough.

Re: Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

#156

Post by timo614 »

djhomeless wrote: post #145
citricsquid wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it? They had a policy of paying $10k if you refer someone that sticks with the company for 6 months. It was a payment. The onus is not on you to claim your wages is it? And if you forget you're not allowed them because "you should have told us!"?

No, it's a bonus, which has to be applied for. I take it from the CEO's comments that they were not clear about the T&C's, but my point was that for all of us working for under-funded companies or projects, it takes a lot of nerve to cry foul/name and shame, over a mutual mistake.

You can file claims with the department of labor for unpaid bonuses earned while working at a company.

Anyhow he was still working at the company at the time he should have been paid so the money was owed to him and he could have filed (for likely at least the interest on the bonus if not wages up until it was paid).

"Unpaid wages, including commissions and bonuses."

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToFileWageClaim.htm

Either way it's a moot point now.

Re: Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

#157

Post by rprasad »

lurchpop wrote: post #122
its_so_on wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you my perspective, which may be interesting. The company Miso has good points about the reason for the program. In the original exchange the points were brought up. To me, the points were brought up one email too late. The moment the first response was Josh, let me talk to Tim. After you lost our data and caused our entire company to scramble for 3 days, I am hesitant , I saw this as. "Let me think of ho…

The thing that stood out for me is the part where they said, "You and Miso never signed a contract that mentions bonuses", which means he has no "legal proof" a bonus was even offered in the first place.

Contracts can be verbal. That's the first thing you learn in law school. Having a written contract as evidence is helpful, but testimony (however self-serving) of an alleged contract constitutes legal proof.

Re: Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

#158

Post by rprasad »

jrs235 wrote: post #128
lurchpop wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that stood out for me is the part where they said, "You and Miso never signed a contract that mentions bonuses", which means he has no "legal proof" a bonus was even offered in the first place.

In many jurisdictions VERBAL agreements can be considered contracts and legally binding. Often people don't sue over verbal contracts is because the burden of proof that one existed/exists is very difficult. The mere fact he has the email exchange which took place between them afterwards is probably enough evidence to show in court that a [contractual] agreement existed. Miso was dumb to ever respond. They would have…

Often people don't sue over verbal contracts is because the burden of proof that one existed/exists is very difficult.

Oh, they definitely sue over verbal contracts all the time. Just trying watching any of the dozen Judge X shows on TV or visiting a small claims court. Indeed, the reason for small claims courts is largely to keep these types of disputes out of real courtrooms.

Re: Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

#159

Post by rprasad »

dangrossman wrote: post #146
jrs235 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many jurisdictions VERBAL agreements can be considered contracts and legally binding. Often people don't sue over verbal contracts is because the burden of proof that one existed/exists is very difficult. The mere fact he has the email exchange which took place between them afterwards is probably enough evidence to show in court that a [contractual] agreement existed. Miso was dumb to ever respond. They would have…

> Often people don't sue over verbal contracts is because the burden of proof that one existed/exists is very difficult That, and because verbal contracts are not enforceable for all transactions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_frauds

The "statute of frauds" doctrine only applies to certain types of transactions. Most transactions, including employment agreements (or for example, selling your business) can be executed verbally.

Re: Miso pays disputed $10k referral bonus to ex-engineer, apologizes

#160

Post by Dylan16807 »

djhomeless wrote: post #145
citricsquid wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it? They had a policy of paying $10k if you refer someone that sticks with the company for 6 months. It was a payment. The onus is not on you to claim your wages is it? And if you forget you're not allowed them because "you should have told us!"?

No, it's a bonus, which has to be applied for. I take it from the CEO's comments that they were not clear about the T&C's, but my point was that for all of us working for under-funded companies or projects, it takes a lot of nerve to cry foul/name and shame, over a mutual mistake.

I think I would feel dirty if I wound up saving $10k because someone I was going to pay it to forgot to do their paperwork for a month.
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