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European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

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Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#131

Post by userbinator »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #49
userbinator wrote: post #16

But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? IMHO the driving UX peaked in the 1960s, and was largely unchanged into the 2000s, until touch screens started taking over. Compare: https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads... https://images-stag.…

> Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? Yes: https://antiquecarmuseumofiowa.org/wp-content/uploads/1913-F... Well ... "are" is kinda stretching it...

Touché! It's interesting how early vehicles were very different in their controls, but seemed to mostly converge and stabilise for a few decades, before again diverging and changing rapidly.

The Model T (Ford) had a throttle on the steering wheel and 3 pedals, but not the ones you'd expect today:

https://www.fordmodelt.net/images/ford-model-t-controls_smal...

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#132

Post by dotancohen »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #53
amluto wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having previously driven a car with a mildly unreliable power steering system, it’s an extremely good thing that the power steering was backed up with a mechanical linkage (that worked very well — it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph). A drive-by-wire system had better be a lot more reliable and also notice impending failures.

> it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph It's not a problem at those speeds, having it crap out when turning slowly and sharply around fast traffic is much more likely to be deadly.

The opposite is true. Those old AMCs without power steering were just as easy to steer on the highway as any other car (once you managed to get up to speed) but the parking lot was a chore and parallel parking was neigh impossible.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#133

Post by Tagbert »

yaky wrote: post #111
onionisafruit wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandmother used to have a car where the horn was a button at the end of one of the stems. I think it was on the same stem that controlled the wipers. I wish I remembered what kind of car it was. I think it was from the 40s.

First generation Chevy Volt (2011-2016) has a button at the end of the left stem that sounds an alternative polite (aka "pedestrian") horn. It's several very rapid, but somewhat quiet honks, that sound like "brrrap".

I like that. I used to have a car that would give that kind of polite honk with a light press and a louder honk with a harder press. I’ve always wished that were still a thing.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#134

Post by dotancohen »

Reason077 wrote: post #81
focusgroup0 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a ride with an owner of a brand new BMW with glass cockpit and minimal buttons. He complained to the dealer about not being able to find any of the actions in the endlessly nested menus. The dealer's response: Use voice controls. He tried it, and it's even worse than Siri in terms of reliability. Absolute unmitigated disaster.

I’ve yet to find any car where the voice control works speedily and reliably, unless using Siri via CarPlay. (Siri is actually pretty great at accurately recognising words, it’s just not always so good at doing something useful with them…) Even Tesla’s is really bad: “Turn off the wipers” frequently gets interpreted as “turn off the wife please” or other similar nonsense.

To be fair, many phrases that I utter (in the car or otherwise) are all also interpreted that same way.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#135

Post by noncoml »

tom_ wrote: post #90
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? Yes: https://antiquecarmuseumofiowa.org/wp-content/uploads/1913-F... Well ... "are" is kinda stretching it...

My 1995 Renault Clio had it as a button on the indicator stalk. Worked very well, in my view. Much easier than pressing the centre of the steering wheel. There's often no need to even move your hand!

Probably a French thing. My dad’s 70’s Peugeot had the horn where in most cars today is the windscreen washer action, ie pull towards you the right stalk.

I would prank my 6-7yo cousin at the time that all you had to do is ask the car to beep and it would do

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#136

Post by dotancohen »

golergka wrote: post #124
dexwiz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all drivers can speak. Not all drivers speak in a way a voice control can reliably understand them. Not all drivers are in environments where voice commands can be easily understood, like loud music. If you are driving a car you likely have the ability to push a button.

Not all drivers can use their legs, they have cars specially fitted for them.

Yes, and so far as I know there is no physical control system to fit into these touchscreen cars.

Market opportunity?

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#137

Post by lizard »

cfr2023 wrote: post #86

The trend of touch screens replacing physical controls in domains where muscle memory is an advantage is an utter atrocity. No amount of interface versatility/flexibility can come close to touching the utility of not having to take your eyes off your subject. NONE.

I don't have a problem so much with the touch screen itself. It's a waste for a lot a things and I frequently just turn my screen off, but it is nice to be able to bring up a map with directions and arrival estimates.

But I am constantly disappointed by just how awful and useless the software is.

Need some directions? Sorry, I can auto-play this music station you haven't used in a week, but if you want those directions you looked up on your way out the best I can do is (maybe) have the address in your recent search history.

Want to resume the music you were streaming from your phone through your media center? Yeah, just give me a few minutes to load up this other UI and...Are you sure you have a music app on your phone? Maybe you just need to add it to the car app? Here, let me bring that up on your phone screen. Hold up. There's some audio coming through the bluetooth, I'll just play that.

Want to see why the "Check Engine" light came on? Oh, well for that you need to buy a $50 dongle with Bluetooth and install an app on your phone.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#138

Post by userbinator »

pwg wrote: post #20
aurareturn wrote: post #4

Around 10 years ago, I started looking into buying a new car. I couldn't believe the number of cars that switched to touch controls even 10 years ago. It boggles my mind just how car makers thought it was safer/easier to have touch in a car while one is driving. I refused to buy any car that replaced physical buttons with touch controls 10 years ago and I still have this rule today. Then again, it also boggles my min…

> It boggles my mind just how car makers thought it was safer/easier to have touch in a car while one is driving. It is likely that neither safety nor ease of use were part of the automaker's "thought process". It is much more likely that a first misguided "designer" created the first touch panel control and somehow sold it to "management" as being "futuristic" and/or "ahead of the competition". And once the first ca…

Safety was part of the thought process --- just enough to get by whatever regulations are currently in effect.
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