Effect of gut microbiome modulation on muscle function and cognition • Hacker News Board

Re: Effect of gut microbiome modulation on muscle function and cognition

#31

Post by CrHn3 » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:05 AM UTC

xk_id wrote: post #26

humbleferret wrote: post #10

This was an interesting read. In essence, a randomised controlled trial looked at the effects of gut microbiome modulation on muscle function and cognition in older adults. Participants in the trail received either a prebiotic or a placebo. My takeaways: - The prebiotic improved cognitive function, but not muscle function, for members of the trial. - The gut microbiome composition changed in the prebiotic group, with…

> an increase in Bifidobacterium abundance. (Was not clear on a first read if that is necessarily always positive). The total effect of a microbiome is not an additive function of the individual species. These species interact in highly complex ways. Some species might normally release factors that are detrimental to health, but their behaviour is suppressed by other species present in the flora. Therefore the indivi…

> Therefore the individual species are not of therapeutic relevance

Wanted to point out that this does not hold true for babies, where Bifidobacterium abundance generally does correlate with healthy microbiota and the strain B. infantis is relevant therapeutically and has evolved to metabolize milk sugars into short chain fatty acids.

Re: Effect of gut microbiome modulation on muscle function and cognition

#32

Post by CrHn3 » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:31 AM UTC

reasonattlm wrote: post #18

It is interesting that they achieved any positive results with prebiotics. The animal study evidence suggests that these are weak interventions compared to fecal microbiota transplant (FMT) from a young individual or flagellin immunization. Weak in the sense that they don't last long for one dose, whereas both FMT and flagellin immunization are essentially years-long to permanent effects, and also weak in the sense o…

This is another positive results using human milk oligosaccharides (HMOs), which I'd consider a prebiotic https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S193131282...

They used EVC001, a robust strain of B. infantis that came out of UC Davis research, and HMOs, which are a symbiotic that it can metabolize into short chain fatty acids, to achieve reversible engraftment without the use of antibiotics. The insurance hypothesis has kind of conflated diversity with function, but it could be possible to have a stable microbiome with less diversity but high function using symbiotics and strains we have identified as contributing to improved function [1].

1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7171047/

Re: Effect of gut microbiome modulation on muscle function and cognition

#33

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:17 AM UTC

CrHn3 wrote: post #31

xk_id wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an increase in Bifidobacterium abundance. (Was not clear on a first read if that is necessarily always positive). The total effect of a microbiome is not an additive function of the individual species. These species interact in highly complex ways. Some species might normally release factors that are detrimental to health, but their behaviour is suppressed by other species present in the flora. Therefore the indivi…

> Therefore the individual species are not of therapeutic relevance Wanted to point out that this does not hold true for babies, where Bifidobacterium abundance generally does correlate with healthy microbiota and the strain B. infantis is relevant therapeutically and has evolved to metabolize milk sugars into short chain fatty acids.

[deleted]

Re: Effect of gut microbiome modulation on muscle function and cognition

#34

Post by xk_id » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:33 AM UTC

CrHn3 wrote: post #31

xk_id wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an increase in Bifidobacterium abundance. (Was not clear on a first read if that is necessarily always positive). The total effect of a microbiome is not an additive function of the individual species. These species interact in highly complex ways. Some species might normally release factors that are detrimental to health, but their behaviour is suppressed by other species present in the flora. Therefore the indivi…

> Therefore the individual species are not of therapeutic relevance Wanted to point out that this does not hold true for babies, where Bifidobacterium abundance generally does correlate with healthy microbiota and the strain B. infantis is relevant therapeutically and has evolved to metabolize milk sugars into short chain fatty acids.

B infantis ferments lactose into lactate, which is afterwards utilised by lactate-consuming bacteria to kickstart butyrate production. In general, the infant gut is about striking a balance between lactate-producing and lactate-using bacteria. While bifidobacterium is usually dominant on the lactate-producing side, the same function can be (and is) fulfilled by other primary colonisers, such as Staphylococcus.

The point here is that individual strains are only "beneficial" in so far as they interact positively with others.

Re: Effect of gut microbiome modulation on muscle function and cognition

#35

Post by pipes » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 1:02 PM UTC

tayo42 wrote: post #14

pipes wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might enjoy genius foods: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35008533-genius-foods

How do I know if this is legit or pseudoscience like alot of supplements or herbal remedy stuff.

He constantly references studies to back up what he is saying. It's a bad title I think, well for such an informative book.