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Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

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Re: Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

#211

Post by mibbitier »

__alexs wrote: post #208
mibbitier wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I believe he's behind the curve. There was a time when some of the things he talks about mattered (1980s), and that time has long gone. The general public don't buy "computers" to tinker with any more. They buy them just like they buy a toaster. As an appliance to use. The software or hardware it runs is irrelevant. All that matters is the user experience, and if it fulfils the purpose - does it make good t…

> The general public don't buy "computers" to tinker with any more. They buy them just like they buy a toaster. You say that like it's at all relevant to the problem. RMS isn't about helping people "tinker" with computers. He's about something much bigger than that. Freedom from monopoly business models.

Monopoly business models are only bad, if the monopoly is abused, or if the user is getting a bad deal.

Google has an absolute monopoly on search, but it's still providing the best search out there, so I use it.

Re: Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

#212

Post by mibbitier »

exDM69 wrote: post #203
mibbitier wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I believe he's behind the curve. There was a time when some of the things he talks about mattered (1980s), and that time has long gone. The general public don't buy "computers" to tinker with any more. They buy them just like they buy a toaster. As an appliance to use. The software or hardware it runs is irrelevant. All that matters is the user experience, and if it fulfils the purpose - does it make good t…

> There was a time when some of the things he talks about mattered (1980s), and that time has long gone. On the contrary. RMS's extreme views on software freedom are more relevant than ever before. In the 2000's we have seen computers turn from general purpose programmable machines into walled gardens where you need a permission from the manufacturer to write and sell programs that run on them. That's pretty much the…

Software. Hardware. The difference is not relevant.

I also can't easily modify my toaster to fry sausages, because of the toaster company not releasing the design schematics and moulds. It's not free hardware!

Re: Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

#213

Post by cglace »

icebraining wrote: post #128
mindcrime wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real world / hypothetical world / thought-experiment aside, the point stands: treating a service as an entitlement entails imposing an obligation on somebody else to provide that service, OR to pay for that service, etc. If granting one person a "right" means violating someone else's rights (that is, their right to choose how to direct their energy and the fruits of their labor) then it's unjust.

I don't think it's unjust to make people contribute to society through taxes if they want to live in it. They're free to opt-out from that implicit contract by going to live elsewhere. There's plenty of inhabited places on Earth still. In any case, rights can and are sometimes eclipsed by others. The idea of natural, absolute rights is just ridiculous.

"They're free to opt-out from that implicit contract by going to live elsewhere."

Is it your position that everything can be justified by a persons ability to get up and move?

Re: Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

#214

Post by ktizo »

Tichy wrote: post #200
ktizo wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More an ability to be exceptionally stupid when drunk.

No offense, but wouldn't that imply that you are stupid when not drunk, as you consciously decide to get drunk?

I can be amazingly stupid when sober, this is true, especially for the first 30 minutes after waking up. But to really screw things up there is normally booze involved.

As for consciously deciding to get drunk when sober, I normally decide to get tipsy. It is when I am tipsy that I decide to get absolutely hammered.

But then again according to statistics, drinkers live longer, have more sex and have higher IQs than teetotallers, plus for most of human history it was one of the few sources of clean water, so is not an entirely stupid activity.

Re: Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

#215

Post by jopt »

rogerbinns wrote: post #171
andrewflnr wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the difference between "subsidized by the government" and "paid for from taxes"? Maybe you could draw a distinction if a specific segment of taxes went to healthcare and nothing else, but that seems a thin semantic distinction at best.

The OP wording implied that the healthcare was free and the costs were mostly borne by "them" (the government). Although it is technically correct that the government is the people/tax payers, voter turnout has (mostly) been steadily decreasing. For non-voters the government is "them", not "us".

Don't you mean "for non-tax-payers?"

Re: Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

#216

Post by mibbitier »

jerf wrote: post #201
mibbitier wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I believe he's behind the curve. There was a time when some of the things he talks about mattered (1980s), and that time has long gone. The general public don't buy "computers" to tinker with any more. They buy them just like they buy a toaster. As an appliance to use. The software or hardware it runs is irrelevant. All that matters is the user experience, and if it fulfils the purpose - does it make good t…

I find it ironic how vocal the anti-RMS contingent is being in the same week that Microsoft is locking Firefox out of one of their Windows 8 lines, while we live in a world where Apple rigidly controls what you do with everything not-Mac and continue making strides towards locking down the Macs as well, where consumer electronics like eBook readers are rapidly displacing computers, and where Google's dedication to op…

The sky is not falling. In fact, if you look at the situation now, with real browser choice, IE declining market share, and with Android, then the situation is better than it has ever been. Most games consoles have opportunities to write software for them. Something you could only dream about in the 90s.

The market decides these things extremely well. We don't need people shouting and taking extremist positions.

The only thing that matters is "Does this device solve a problem I have, and satisfy my needs?". If the answer to that is yes, then I don't care how open/closed/walled garden it is.

Re: Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

#217

Post by jerf »

mibbitier wrote: post #216
jerf wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it ironic how vocal the anti-RMS contingent is being in the same week that Microsoft is locking Firefox out of one of their Windows 8 lines, while we live in a world where Apple rigidly controls what you do with everything not-Mac and continue making strides towards locking down the Macs as well, where consumer electronics like eBook readers are rapidly displacing computers, and where Google's dedication to op…

The sky is not falling. In fact, if you look at the situation now, with real browser choice, IE declining market share, and with Android, then the situation is better than it has ever been. Most games consoles have opportunities to write software for them. Something you could only dream about in the 90s. The market decides these things extremely well. We don't need people shouting and taking extremist positions. The…

Yes. We have real browser choice on our conventional computers and Android. Less on iPhone, none on Windows 8 for ARM. Game consoles are walled gardens and I'm not sure what you mean by "most" because I'm pretty sure it's only the XBox 360 that is open to all, and that a hugely restricted sandbox as well.

So, your bright spots are a fading category under active attack (web browser choice), a dubious walled garden (XBox 360) from the same company working to kill our browser choice, and a phone platform which as I've said goes back and forth between open and not depending on the who, what, and when, with basically a single project standing between us and the whole platform being effectively closed (CyanogenMod). (I'm assuming you're not claiming the PS3 as open after the openness was retroactively removed by Sony. There is nothing stopping Microsoft from doing that either.)

This isn't extremism to be ringing the bell, our insertion into the trunk is nearly a fait accompli, and again, we're barely showing up to the fight.

Re: Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

#218

Post by __alexs »

mibbitier wrote: post #211
__alexs wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The general public don't buy "computers" to tinker with any more. They buy them just like they buy a toaster. You say that like it's at all relevant to the problem. RMS isn't about helping people "tinker" with computers. He's about something much bigger than that. Freedom from monopoly business models.

Monopoly business models are only bad, if the monopoly is abused, or if the user is getting a bad deal. Google has an absolute monopoly on search, but it's still providing the best search out there, so I use it.

You seem to have chosen your example to prove your point and also misunderstood the meaning of "monopoly business models."

I refer to business models that seek out monopoly status through techniques such as vendor lock in. Not just businesses that find themselves in a position of monopoly.

Re: Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

#219

Post by jopt »

mattbriggs wrote: post #150
figglesonrails wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally, minors are considered "incompetent", the idea being that they wouldn't know if something would be harmful to them in the long run. Additionally, the level of wisdom/intelligence is just too different -- children are extremely easy to manipulate compared to adults, especially since adults are almost unanimously regarded as "authority figures", doubly so if a family member. Voluntary means little if you can't…

beyond that, children really don't have a sexuality until at least puberty. There is no such thing as "voluntary" pedophilia.

Perhaps rms was talking about the legal definition (18) and not the clinical

Re: Richard Stallman Collapses At Barcelona Conference

#220

Post by beeneto »

mibbitier wrote: post #174
lumberjack wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would people even hate Richard Stallman, anyway? It's perfectly OK to attack his ideologies but I don't see why you'd hate him personally as if he's some villain that is hurting people in some way or another. The guy is merely advocating his ideals. He's not enforcing them. He's not dominating any markets and enforcing his ideologies on people. He's not profiting of his ideologies. He doesn't even enjoy any power…

He influences others with his (IMHO poisonous ideology). For some bizarre reason, some people listen to his mad rhetoric. That's why others dislike him. IMHO, he hurts several things. He hurts free software, and he hurts the software industry as a whole.

I have never considered your point of view and I am curious about it. Can you explain why you think his ideology is poisonous? Also how can it be possible that he's hurting the free software movement, when I thought he CREATED the free software movement.
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