Why do east Asian firms value drinking? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#151

Post by StefanBatory » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 7:41 AM UTC

Dracophoenix wrote: post #143

nox101 wrote: post #5

This presentation from the Long Now Foundation makes the proposition that drinking helps create society https://longnow.org/ideas/drinking-10000-years-intoxication-... > Drawing on evidence from archaeology, history, cognitive neuroscience, psychopharmacology, social psychology, literature, and genetics, Slingerland shows that our taste for chemical intoxicants is not an evolutionary mistake, as we are so often told.…

> A recent anime had a line "drinking is healing" meant that's where you let go of your worries and you heal relationships. Which anime?

I believe it's Frieren. Quite good one, actually.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#152

Post by z3n0n » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 8:04 AM UTC

jimbob45 wrote: post #125

tkgally wrote: post #112

The article engages in a bit too much overgeneralization for my taste: “Collective harmony and hierarchy are strongly idealised across East Asia,” “Americans are extremely direct,” etc. There’s a lot more social and individual diversity than statements like that suggest. One data point: I grew up in the U.S. but have lived in Japan for the past forty-one years. I freelanced for Japanese companies for my first two dec…

Are Americans actually considered “extremely direct”? Any foreigners on here able to chime in on if that generalization rings true?

As a German-Israeli, both of which are extremely direct cultures (in different ways), I feel there’s a lot of “dancing around” in American communication culture that seems silly.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#153

Post by wkat4242 » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 9:06 AM UTC

bigger_cheese wrote: post #115

resolutebat wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the "with food" bit is underrated. Bar/pub food in the West is crappy almost by definition (the occasional gastropub notwithstanding) and many/most people don't eat anything at all, while if you go drinking in Tokyo, food is an absolutely critical part of the izakaya (Japanese pub) experience. It's also quite socially acceptable for women to go to an izakaya and drink oolong tea instead of alcohol all night l…

At least here in Australia you get pretty decent food at pubs I mean it's not going to blow your socks off but any pub worth it's name will serve a decent Chicken Schnitzel or Parmigiana. It's the high end hipster bars that tend not to do any food. As a rule of thumb the more blue collar the pub the better the food will be - Builders Clubs and Trade Union associated places tend to have the best food followed by Sport…

The RSLs I've been to in Australia also had decent food for a great price.

They're officially for veterans I believe but the ones in smaller towns tend to accept everyone because there isn't that much else around.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#154

Post by nsonha » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 9:16 AM UTC

mcmoor wrote: post #135

nsonha wrote: post #126

"Asia" is too broad, the Japanese and Chinese are on the extreme side of this spectrum, but it's not like that in South East Asia and I'd imagine south asians to not even drink.

By this point "Asia" as the entire continent is obsolete colloquially and also not useful. There's almost nothing uniting the entire region. People nowadays use "Asia" only to refer to East Asia, and I think they have a point.

> People nowadays use "Asia" only to refer to East Asia.

No, Asia in that sense often refers to East & South East Asia. People will use "East Asia" if they mean so.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#155

Post by PeterisP » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 9:39 AM UTC

neilv wrote: post #61

PeterisP wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cultures where direct confrontation isn't accepted, intention does not matter , you simply can't do it - if someone believes that intention is all that matters, speaks their mind directly with e.g. some not-properly-veiled criticism (no matter how justified or needed), and justifies it with "I didn't aim to upset", even if they genuinely didn't aim that and everybody understands that they didn't aim to upset, they…

I have limited experience with this, but have started to wonder whether the harmonious interaction culture tends to be paired with extremely hierarchical "just find a way to do exactly what you were told to do, even if you know it will destroy the company" worker mindset. So that, if someone comes in and calls out nonsensical, self-destructive organizational behavior, not only are feathers ruffled up the hierarchy, b…

There definitely is a practical organization need for a way to call out nonsense - but this article is about the widely used workaround process (namely, honest talks during after-work drinking) that does enable this valuable feedback to happen despite the "harmonious interaction culture" in the default environment.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#156

Post by euroderf » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 10:41 AM UTC

datavirtue wrote: post #134

nox101 wrote: post #5

This presentation from the Long Now Foundation makes the proposition that drinking helps create society https://longnow.org/ideas/drinking-10000-years-intoxication-... > Drawing on evidence from archaeology, history, cognitive neuroscience, psychopharmacology, social psychology, literature, and genetics, Slingerland shows that our taste for chemical intoxicants is not an evolutionary mistake, as we are so often told.…

Now drinking is healing. Oh, brother.

Taking "beer is liquid bread" to the next level.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#157

Post by euroderf » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 10:44 AM UTC

neilv wrote: post #70

refracture wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but those same Mormons drink all the booze if there’s no other Mormons at the party.

That might be true in some cases, but I haven't seen it. The Mormons I've seen tend to be more healthy clean living, than anything else.

FWIW, Mormons make great babysitters.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#158

Post by rdonahue » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 12:50 PM UTC

hughesjj wrote: post #119

matwood wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-alcoholic beers have also gotten quite good.

Partake and athletic are amazing but my favorite is still asahi dry zero, just hard to find Also laguinitas hopwater is the bomb and I like it better than actual IPAs

Try mixing some zero sugar lemonade w/ Hopwater. It's fantastic.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#159

Post by al_borland » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 1:32 PM UTC

tombert wrote: post #2

Even in the US, in tech firms, it's pretty common to have happy hours where everyone drinks a bit. I don't drink at all due to my sleep apnea, and don't even have caffeine after 1pm for the same reason, so I'm pretty much always in this kind of awkward position of sipping on a water throughout the night while coworkers get more and more inebriated. I don't think it's ever directly hurt my chances of promotion or anyt…

>I don't think it's ever directly hurt my chances of promotion or anything, but I do think it makes socializing harder.

From what I’ve seen (in the US), people will frame in like it will hurt, because drinkers what to drink with other people, but competence wins out at the end of the day.

Being around when decisions get made outside of the office can have an impact though, and it sounds like you’re still there for that. I used to go out with the smokers on their smoke break for the same reason. I didn’t smoke, but going out with them let me be part of the conversation that was sometimes social, but often turned to work and strategy.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#160

Post by yurishimo » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 1:43 PM UTC

StefanBatory wrote: post #151

Dracophoenix wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A recent anime had a line "drinking is healing" meant that's where you let go of your worries and you heal relationships. Which anime?

I believe it's Frieren. Quite good one, actually.

The episode with the red headed kid having flashbacks about the ice cream?

I didn’t quite have the same takeaway but I suppose that’s one way to look at it.

It is an excellent anime however. I suspect it will go down as one of the best anime’s of this decade. Story is great, premise is great, and now at the current episodes, the fighting animation is getting some more love as well. I’m hyped for how it will eventually wrap up!