Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Homeless Mortality Data

calmatters.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 65 posts

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#31

Post by Exoristos »

deepspace wrote: post #25

When we look back at the history of the US, the one practice that stands out is slavery. Today, we can only shake our heads and wonder how so-called civilized people allowed that abomination to continue for as long as it did. How can so many people have looked upon so much human suffering for so long, without lifting a finger? Today, we are forcing people out into the street through low wages and callous layoffs to i…

I've volunteered with the homeless for years. Someone doesn't get laid off from a corporate job and go live on the street. These are folks who exhausted the social safety nets, ran out of family members to impose on, ran out of friends' couches -- they're alcohol and drug addicts who burned all their bridges. Many of them have never held jobs at all.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#32

Post by mewpmewp2 »

advael wrote: post #8
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't 1000 per 100k imply roughly average of 100 age span? Which seems really good to me.

No, but I really gotta know how you drew that conclusion

Because if you had stable amount of population if people lived to be 100 years old then each year 1000 out of 100k would die.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#33

Post by exe34 »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #22
lebean wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's weird! Did something happen during 2020???

In 2020, the two main sources of life-sustaining resources for people without housing -- public spaces and other people -- were almost entirely cut off.

What do you need other people for? As long as the economy is still running basic services, you can just look inwards for happiness!

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#34

Post by mewpmewp2 »

DefineOutside wrote: post #15
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't 1000 per 100k imply roughly average of 100 age span? Which seems really good to me.

No because the population skews younger.

But even then you can hardly determine that it is a bad or unexpected number, as you would get that number if each year same amount of people were born and died and everyone lived to 100.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#35

Post by advael »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #32
advael wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but I really gotta know how you drew that conclusion

Because if you had stable amount of population if people lived to be 100 years old then each year 1000 out of 100k would die.

In this case, I think the assumption that doesn't bear out is "stable amount of population". The relationship between death rate and expected lifespan is likely calculable, but only if you also have either age data or at least approximate change in birthrate data, preferably going back to living memory. We might have that available somewhere, but I don't think your estimate came from having it.

Like let's say there's a terrible war, and half of all people die. Can we conclude that most people are dying around 2? This example is extreme, but shows that we at least need some averages over time to start making a case for life expectancy being predicted well by the data

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#36

Post by mewpmewp2 »

advael wrote: post #35
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you had stable amount of population if people lived to be 100 years old then each year 1000 out of 100k would die.

In this case, I think the assumption that doesn't bear out is "stable amount of population". The relationship between death rate and expected lifespan is likely calculable, but only if you also have either age data or at least approximate change in birthrate data, preferably going back to living memory. We might have that available somewhere, but I don't think your estimate came from having it. Like let's say there's…

Yes, but also part of my point, that the above author based on these numbers implied that World is getting more dangerous, but firstly as you mentioned these numbers are meaningless if we don't know the exact demographics of the 100k and secondly for a stable 100k these would be really good numbers.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#38

Post by Phenomenit »

Exoristos wrote: post #31
deepspace wrote: post #25

When we look back at the history of the US, the one practice that stands out is slavery. Today, we can only shake our heads and wonder how so-called civilized people allowed that abomination to continue for as long as it did. How can so many people have looked upon so much human suffering for so long, without lifting a finger? Today, we are forcing people out into the street through low wages and callous layoffs to i…

I've volunteered with the homeless for years. Someone doesn't get laid off from a corporate job and go live on the street. These are folks who exhausted the social safety nets, ran out of family members to impose on, ran out of friends' couches -- they're alcohol and drug addicts who burned all their bridges. Many of them have never held jobs at all.

And therefore they do not deserve to live.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#39

Post by Geisterde »

dzink wrote: post #27

Garry Tan has a lot of X/Twitter posts on the subject. 68% of SF overdose deaths seem to happen inside shelters. Recently one of the shelter workers overdosed as well. There seems to be a massive disconnect between intention and consequences of policies. https://x.com/garrytan/status/1750566946201047218?s=46&t=bGA...

I still believe treatment centers would be preferable, I just dont think its reasonable to expect that to happen. Requiring sobriety tests helps, I would suppose, the people that are actually interested in getting better, though many homeless allegedly avoid shelters because of the requirements.

I can speculate on a few things that would reduce the rate of homelessness, economy, civil society, religion, but incarceration (where treatment is refused) seems like the only way to stop the cities from bleeding; open air drug use wouldnt be tolerated on private property (and where it is, fine, be my guest, I smoke, at home), it shouldnt be tolerated on public property either, dont be a menace.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#40

Post by saagarjha »

dzink wrote: post #27

Garry Tan has a lot of X/Twitter posts on the subject. 68% of SF overdose deaths seem to happen inside shelters. Recently one of the shelter workers overdosed as well. There seems to be a massive disconnect between intention and consequences of policies. https://x.com/garrytan/status/1750566946201047218?s=46&t=bGA...

I don't have the details behind these numbers, but I wonder if the conclusion is sound? Like, a lot of people who die of sickness die in a hospital. I don't think that means that they are doing a poor job.
Post reply on HN