Hey Paydirt: Your Site Works Just Fine In IE • Hacker News Board

Re: Hey Paydirt: Your Site Works Just Fine In IE

#211

Post by tokenizer » Thu, May 10, 2012, 2:33 AM UTC

Isn't IE usually the only browser worth creating seperate stylesheets not to mention the browser who gives the most difficulty with your javascript?

If Microsoft truly cared about the web, they would adhere to strict standards support and compliance, force updates for IE9 and below, and begin auto update cycles for their browsers.

That may seem like a lot to ask, but it's the only things to me as a web developer I can see that could remedy their horrible reputation in the browser community. No one game app on their latest browser will change that.

Re: Hey Paydirt: Your Site Works Just Fine In IE

#212

Post by tokenizer » Thu, May 10, 2012, 2:39 AM UTC

gaius wrote: post #71

mistercow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, MS doesn't get to dodge blame that easily. They blatantly used non-standard features in their browser to stifle competition. Many developers were complicit in this but that was according to Microsoft's design.

Non standard features like... XMLHttpRequest? The entire AJAX industry, they invented. What were you saying again?

...which delayed web socket development if you think about it. The need of real time applications would've forced the correct solution-websockets, but we already had a shaky solution... AJAX..

Re: Hey Paydirt: Your Site Works Just Fine In IE

#213

Post by fanf2 » Thu, May 10, 2012, 6:42 AM UTC

tokenizer wrote: post #212

gaius wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non standard features like... XMLHttpRequest? The entire AJAX industry, they invented. What were you saying again?

...which delayed web socket development if you think about it. The need of real time applications would've forced the correct solution-websockets, but we already had a shaky solution... AJAX..

There was no demand for anything like websockets until everyone had years of experience with exploring the capabilities of AJAX.

Re: Hey Paydirt: Your Site Works Just Fine In IE

#214

Post by jongalloway2 » Thu, May 10, 2012, 6:56 AM UTC

robocat wrote: post #178

jongalloway2 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VirtualBox natively supports VHD format, so stop shaving those yaks. Where is that $300 coming from? You run VirtualBox on your computer (free), install free VHD's (free), and free the free free with your free free (free).

Sure you can run the VHD in VirtualBox. Then you run into driver problems (the VM drivers are set up for VirtualPC) and activation problems (see comment on other thread). And you get to do everything again in three months and hope nothing else has changed. The VMs are free if your time is free.

The only VM that requires any driver config is IE6, and these scripts handle that: https://github.com/xdissent/ievms

You don't need to activate Windows, you can (legally, supported by Microsoft) extend the grace period to 180 days, and you can even automate that. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/vista-hands-on-9-use-vista-fo...

It's been that way for 5+ years.

Re: Hey Paydirt: Your Site Works Just Fine In IE

#215

Post by underwater » Thu, May 10, 2012, 8:34 PM UTC

irahul wrote: post #175

underwater wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes five seconds with Google to discover why centering doesn't work. Hint: you're probably missing a doctype declaration. If you're thinking of blocking multiple versions of a browser because of your own lack of knowledge then perhaps you're in the wrong industry. We went through this ten years ago. It was a bad idea then and it's bad idea now.

> Hint: you're probably missing a doctype declaration. > If you're thinking of blocking multiple versions of a browser because of your own lack of knowledge then perhaps you're in the wrong industry. May be the doctype will fix it for newer version of IE, may be it won't(don't know about the newer versions; older versions need text-align:center). You are conveniently ignoring different boxing model, min-height, stair…

Box model: Fixed in IE6, 11 years ago: Internet Explorer versions 6 and onward are not affected by the bug if the page contains certain HTML document type declarations.[1]

Double margin, min-height: Fixed in IE7, 6 years ago.

Staircase bug: Fixed in IE8, three years ago.

You're complaining about issues that were fixed over a decade ago. You haven't even bothered to research the very things you're complaining about and you expect people to take you seriously. These are solved issues. If you ensure your page has the correct doctype -- which they should have regardless of whether you want to support IE or not -- then your site works on all versions of Internet Explorer after 6 (which has a ~2% market share [2]).

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_box_model_bug...

2. http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2012-04/Squ...

Re: Hey Paydirt: Your Site Works Just Fine In IE

#216

Post by irahul » Fri, May 11, 2012, 5:49 AM UTC

underwater wrote: post #215

irahul wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hint: you're probably missing a doctype declaration. > If you're thinking of blocking multiple versions of a browser because of your own lack of knowledge then perhaps you're in the wrong industry. May be the doctype will fix it for newer version of IE, may be it won't(don't know about the newer versions; older versions need text-align:center). You are conveniently ignoring different boxing model, min-height, stair…

Box model: Fixed in IE6, 11 years ago: Internet Explorer versions 6 and onward are not affected by the bug if the page contains certain HTML document type declarations. [1] Double margin, min-height: Fixed in IE7, 6 years ago. Staircase bug: Fixed in IE8, three years ago. You're complaining about issues that were fixed over a decade ago. You haven't even bothered to research the very things you're complaining about a…

My bad. I didn't know IE has fixed most of the warts.

Re: Hey Paydirt: Your Site Works Just Fine In IE

#217

Post by sauravc » Fri, May 11, 2012, 10:12 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #41

sauravc wrote: post #22

IE may be annoying, and I certainly sympathize with the Paydirt crew. But this author makes a good point: "it’s exactly this type of behavior (writing for or against specific browsers) that sets the Web back again." Sometimes doing the right thing isn't the easiest path forward.

The unspoken assertion in that point? The only basis for including "again" is the past work of the IE team themselves.

Yup. But two wrongs don't make a right.