Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not exactly what you want but how about this setup: keep your minimal phone as your default phone with cell service. Whenever you head out use that. Your second distracting regular smartphone has no cell service. If you want to use that one either use wifi or bring both along and tether to your minimal phone.
I was under the impression most minimal phones don't have wifi hotspot feature/capability ?
Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real keyboard
101–110 of 168 posts
Re: Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real keyboard
#102I'm the owner of a Light Phone II [0] and (other than battery life), the biggest downside to the Light Phone I can envision for most people is the absence of apps like Uber, Apple Pay and Spotify. I think 5G isn't that necessary on a phone like that, except maybe for future-proofing. This phone seems to have a camera, though, and access to Play Store (although it will likely be messy) really sets it apart from most "…
You've hit it spot on. I got a light phone years ago to help cure my cell phone addiction, but it was too problematic. I still need to use the "tools" of my phone - things like Maps, Uber, authenticator apps, texting, etc., but I just wanted to block the "dopamine dealers" like social media and the browser.
The best I've gotten to so far is to permanently enable "focus mode" on my phone. Of course I can still disable it, but I've noticed the number of times I just automatically start browsing the web or whatever when I'm even just a tad bored, and having those apps blocked is at least just a reminder to me of "Do you really want to do this right now?"
Re: Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real keyboard
#103> Can I use apps on Minimal? > Yes, Minimal runs on Android, allowing you to download and use essential apps. However, the e-ink display and device optimization are geared towards minimizing unnecessary distractions. That answers the only question I had about this. You still get full access to every app you need, it just increases the friction (via the low refresh rate and the lack of colors) so you can't doomscroll.…
Re: Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real keyboard
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, or charge every night, or look for when you're in a hurry to get out the door, etc. Or buy, for that matter. Probably what I'd rather have is a phone that has a low power low function mode, that I can configure what apps are available, and then a regular mode where everything is available. But to get to it, I need to convince a LLM equivalent of Seinfeld's soup nazi why I need it.
Yeah a phone with an easy toggle between "dumb" and "smart" would be handy, especially if "dumb" mode had greatly increased battery life, but I don't think it would appeal to enough people to motivate making one.
Re: Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real keyboard
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think 5G isn't that necessary on a phone like that, except maybe for future-proofing. 5G is more than future proofing, at least where I am, 5G is deployed at new lower frequencies (taken from broadcast TV) that provide for more full coverage. With my new 5g phone, I have less dead zones than my old 4g phone.
That is to say, you live in the future. I have the same experience with my phone. 5G is already here.
We have seen this in action as many Cellspot and other signal booster users have retired these devices as the indoor and basement cell coverage improvements of 5G deliver better service than the DSL or satellite back hauled micro cells these users used to have at home.
Re: Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real keyboard
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah a phone with an easy toggle between "dumb" and "smart" would be handy, especially if "dumb" mode had greatly increased battery life, but I don't think it would appeal to enough people to motivate making one.
I mean, it could just be built into android, or maybe even an app with enough permissions. But agreed, even at that minimal level of friction, I'd probably turn it off most of the time, and deal with it via old fashioned self control. And for the times I'm out of control, just turn the phone off.
Isn't this literally already built into Android? Extreme Battery Saver effectively turns your phone into a feature phone, disabling every app except Clock, Phone, Messages, Settings, the Play Store, and your camera. And you can add other essential apps to the whitelist (e.g. I have my note taking, ride sharing, banking/wallet, calendar and TOTP apps enabled, and my music player if I'm on the go). It even degrades the phone's performance to match lol, and the added battery life you get from it is fantastic.
Might be a Pixel-only thing now that I think of it...then again I'm pretty sure other OEMs like Samsung would have their own versions
Re: Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real keyboard
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately this confirms my fear. I think I’d want to throw an e-ink phone against a wall after a while from frustration with the lag. E-ink screen refreshes are just far too slow for something interactive. That’s one of the reasons they work great on e-readers. I wondered if they were doing something special or had a different kind of e-ink screen that was faster in trade for some other property but at least the…
Out of curiosity which part of the video makes you think the lag is unacceptable? It’s more like a low refresh rate. Sure scrolling is a bit slow so it’s much better to fixed length “page turn” with the volume buttons instead but I’ve really gotten used to it. If you are talking about me missing the tap zones on the touchscreen to scroll that’s user error :P
When you’re trying to tap the screen a bunch to get something accomplished if each step takes 250+ms extra just waiting on the screen it would add up to frustration fast.
Re: Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real keyboard
#108Overall, the device has been far superior to any earlier Android device I've owned for overall readability, usability, battery life, and satisfaction.
For a demonstration of what e-ink displays are capable of, see this video, which starts basic (static signage systems), and progresses through video-capable displays (not, it's true, high quality, but serviceable): https://yewtu.be/watch?v=KdrMjnYAap4>
An Onyx BOOX Note displaying video, similar to my own device: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=XRDJv_-wWBI>.
For e-ink tablets and mobile devices there are typically multiple display modes, which can be set on both a per-app and overall system basis. It's reasonably easy to switch between these where needed (e.g., on a Web browser). Higher-quality rendering comes with slower refresh, and there's a trade-off for visual quality vs. speed, but even basic animation is possible with only very modest quality degradation. "X-mode" for full video sacrifices a lot of quality, but you'd typically use that only for video-intensive apps (or occasional video viewing in a Web browser). The main side-effect is ghosting at higher refresh speeds.
Android devices can use third-party app stores such as F-Droid (VERY strongly recommended), with an independent selection of apps, or the Aurora Store alternative interface to Google Play Store which provides any Android app available through Google Play. I minimise the apps I've installed, and have avoided virtually all authenticated services (one article-managing app excepted), to minimise distractions, but have several installed from both sources.
E-ink itself does have its strengths and weaknesses. I like to say: Persistence is free; pixels are cheap; paints are expensive; refreshes are slow (1-8 Hz rather than 60--120); shades and colours are limited or nonexistent; line-art, dithered images, and half tones render quite well (raster and gradients far less so); paginated navigation is vastly better than scrolling; graphics are reflective rather than emissive; touch/Wacom may exist; and feature-detection capabilities are limited (e.g., CSS @media queries). It's a different medium, and rewards some adaptation of design principles. See: https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba844...>.
I'd make one further addition: dark-on-light styles are hugely preferable to "dark-mode" (light-on-dark), which is far more difficult to read. Generally, e-ink prefers full black on full white styling.
I'll note that apps which are designed for e-ink, most particularly EinkBro (an adaptation of the FOSS Browser) make for a much superior experience: https://github.com/plateaukao/einkbro>.
And yes, there are full e-ink monitors which are available for desktop systems: https://shop.boox.com/products/mira>
Re: Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real keyboard
#109I recorded a video of another e ink phone running many common Android apps really well (in direct sunlight)! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvO9ScTdwz8 It's the Hisense A9 with a beautiful and fast Carta 1200 e ink display. It's very capable, I would have preferred a phone more like that instead. It's biggest drawback is terrible USA cell reception. This company was initially going to make a phone like this but appa…
Ideally I'd like something half way in between this and the Light Phone - small, stripped back phone that's less appealing to use (i.e e-ink with its grayscale and slow refresh rate introduce enough friction so it's not worth being on infinite scrolling apps), but still backed by an ecosystem like Android so that you can still access "essential" apps like Telegram/Whatsapp and Notion/PocketCasts and don't have to fully give up all the helpful progress we've made since 2005. I saw your other comment about the camera - it would also be nice to have high-end camera built in for taking photos and videos, even if I essentially can't look at them on the phone I'd still be happy to capture and sync them for use elsewhere. It's a fine balance. I'm hoping enough people start looking for this over the next few years to make the market worth targeting for manufacturers, but I'm not confident.
Re: Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real keyboard
#110I'm the owner of a Light Phone II [0] and (other than battery life), the biggest downside to the Light Phone I can envision for most people is the absence of apps like Uber, Apple Pay and Spotify. I think 5G isn't that necessary on a phone like that, except maybe for future-proofing. This phone seems to have a camera, though, and access to Play Store (although it will likely be messy) really sets it apart from most "…
> the biggest downside to the Light Phone I can envision for most people is the absence of apps like Uber, Apple Pay and Spotify. You've hit it spot on. I got a light phone years ago to help cure my cell phone addiction, but it was too problematic. I still need to use the "tools" of my phone - things like Maps, Uber, authenticator apps, texting, etc., but I just wanted to block the "dopamine dealers" like social medi…
At the moment I use greyscale mode on my Pixel and have uninstalled apps, only using them in the browser if I "need to." It's not much, but adding that small friction helps somewhat.